EP464 – Fight for the Future

September 22, 2023

On this episode of WPwatercooler, we’ll be discussing Five for the Future—the initiative promoting the  WordPress community’s contributions to the WordPress.org project—and how both sponsored and unsponsored contributors impact the WordPress project.


Episode Transcription

(63) EP464 – Fight for the Future – WPwatercooler – YouTube

(00:03) [Music] thank you this is episode number 464 of WP water cooler fight for the future Jason Tucker find me over at jasontecher.blog did it and you all know who it is it’s your boy Jason Casper AKA Fatboy back at it again on the world’s most influential WordPress podcast wherever it is you find podcasts and hang out with us and Discord I need to fire that production person production person really sucks our production person needs some help no really actually needs help but not like a production person sucks they literally
(01:02) played the wrong the wrong audio so good is that what it was oh yeah intro song over here oh I thought it was different well we’re over here uh just doing this for free on our own volunteering to be part of the community 500 for the future 500 reviews that’s really a perfect segue because you Jason Tucker do all of the production on this show and have for um actually oh wait what’s the date oh my gosh y’all it’s our 11 year anniversary is it now yes it is at it for 11 years wow what is that even so did you guys
(01:42) get a get us a present like what are we doing here I have some presents I have little truth packages it’s tied up with like bows on them that I’m going to talk about perfect well how about it all right let’s just get into it okay because I uh as if you follow me on Twitter on Mastodon um you know that I had you might know if you paid attention to today’s tweets that is stress stream about Matt Mullen wig last night um he absconded with my child um and I was running around this college campus we were in college with a kid so
(02:16) it makes sense you know uh I never actually saw my child I just knew he had my child so it wasn’t necessarily my child so in case you’re looking for the metaphor it was WordPress that’s that’s okay good that’s the metaphor I’m just gonna go ahead and say it out loud uh so yeah it’s been that everyone keeps asking me how I’m doing actually what everyone keeps saying when they message me is I can’t even begin to imagine how you’re feeling that’s what most people are saying like
(02:44) I can’t imagine how you’re doing are you okay like I can’t imagine how this feels and like on one side it’s like it’s it’s literally nothing like nothing happened right like some dude blocked me on Twitter and on the other side the psychological and like community and like just ecosystem ramifications of that are like intense so it’s it’s really wild to have these like two things and this is I think something that we deal with on the internet a lot us who work on the internet that the
(03:16) stuff we work on is like intangible it’s like not you know it’s like we can’t touch it um did you just update the logo [Laughter] I like pouring my heart out and Tucker’s like Graphics it’s fine it’s fine I know you all care so much okay so here’s the thing um I’ve been feeling like like um what’s it War here are my principles and my love for open source my love for WordPress open source WordPress my thoughts that democracy democratizing publishing is important access to software is important uh warring with
(03:55) the idea that I am volunteering for abuse that does not necessarily track so I’m struggling with that but uh you know as we talked about last week I’m not I’m not making plans to leave because I don’t because I don’t think that’s right uh but what I am going to do is I’m gonna talk more truths that’s what I’m gonna do because in for Penny in for a pound and uh I’m in for the penny obviously so here’s the pound the pound is five for the future is a bunch of Lies there you go
(04:32) drop it no uh yeah I will tell actually so I don’t think five for the future the concept is is I actually I think it’s a great concept Matt has great ideas he really does and I um sometimes and I uh I have been a huge supporter of the idea of five for the future and in fact that is part of the wp Community collectives um one of basically our kind of calls to action is that this is a way that companies and agencies you know host whoever they are can contribute back through contributing contributing fellowships uh or donating to
(05:10) fellowships supporting fellowships so they can contribute back without having to hire the person directly because um and I’ve talked about this a lot on Twitter but I don’t know if I’ve really talked about it on the show you know it’s actually very difficult for companies not just small ones but for any company to hire people that then go work um outside of the company and have no billable hours have no set deliverables have you know none of these things so it’s a it’s a complicated ask to be able
(05:40) to say hey we’re donating back all these hours and oftentimes it gets it we’ll just have you know contributor day you know once a month whether or not that’s useful or not I don’t know or give a little bit of time from each contributor or from each employee but first of all it’s really hard to contribute and just drop in for a second it’s really hard to do that and get your bearings and so if it’s really hard to just drop in and do a little bit and it’s really hard to have someone do it
(06:07) full time uh or even like part-time that from a sponsored company sponsored by a company then it’s really complicated uh so it’s not you know put some people over here and it’s you know done done deal um the what is the LIE is the hours um so over on um automatics five for the future page it says that they um let’s see how many hours does it make 110 contributors for a total of 3949 hours uh per week across two teams which is you know that’s a lot of hours if you want to add I don’t know what the
(06:45) math is on that but you know 3 900 times what like let’s say 75 an hour that’s a lot of money someone wants to do the math you’re welcome to do so um but uh the problem is there’s a lot of those hours are not actually working on the Community open source project and I can’t say that I know this for everybody but I can tell you and all of you listening 100 that the people who are pledged to do the marketing team are not doing 40 hours a week uh and there’s actually a couple of them are are on a
(07:25) couple different teams um I don’t see those people on those other teams really any either um but I can tell you that the folks that are pledged for 40 hours to our team are not doing anything for the community and the at the community Summit and we talked a little bit about this last week but at the community Summit I brought this up and um some of the automaticians said that they work they do invisible hours right so I want to kind of to get into that more what does that mean in multiple hours that means those are ours those people are
(07:57) spending on WordPress on the WordPress project but they are not part doing so within the community so those would be meetings at automatic or uh projects that are not Community projects but still for DOT org so um if you look if one were to look at the marketing uh GitHub which has this year become an active place with lots of ideas um and lots of Open tickets um the spa sponsored automaticians to the marketing team do not work on them and the people who were working in the tickets were fired so the people who were contributing to
(08:41) the community who were putting as I have requested them to multiple times every time something comes up where it’s like where’d that come from I say can you please track this work in the GitHub can you please post this on GitHub I don’t care if you do it on your own I just want you to log it and not only did I uh get incredible pushback so much pushback that it was actually reported by someone else on a different team to uh josepha’s Chief of Staff Chloe I know this because that person told me
(09:12) um no one ever said anything to me but that was it was like the most disrespectful thread it’s in slack you can go look at if anyone wants the uh once that but so even me asking hey can you please just document the work you’re doing so we know what’s going on that the answer to that was no not going to do that um so there are all these tickets in marketing in the GitHub marketing that have so much work to do and at every meeting every week you know we’re adding more ideas right and we’re like at you know we’re listing out all
(09:42) these GitHub tickets there’s so many great ideas so many things that need motion uh and need Forward Motion but none of them get worked on by the marketing team there are a couple Endeavors which are approved official Endeavors that do get some traction and are the community is allowed to participate in them uh like this month in WordPress you can add you know you can say hey let’s edit this you can edit the doc or whatever um but what goes in there what the final all of that is still done um you know in-house in automatic’s
(10:13) house um so that’s the situation they’re not doing the work so I ca when we’re talking about 40 hours a week being pledged to WordPress the community which it says on the page and that work is not documented that work is not on what anything is happening in the community um and we are being literally told no when we’re asked to have whatever work is happening outside be documented so um I don’t believe that number is the answer to that question because I know multiple people on that little automatic
(10:47) headshot that say they’re working they’re pledged 40 hours a week to um you know to marketing and to core or to whatever some of those people have never ever attended a marketing meeting and you know what you have to do to attend a marketing meeting you have to write your name in a slack thread you don’t even have to read anything you literally just have to go in there over the course of a week and say hi I’m here async that’s it that’s all you got to do that’s not even happening and that takes
(11:17) literally two seconds so for that person to say oh I’m I’m volunteer I’m I’m con I’m sponsored to the marketing team it’s it’s literally a lie but accept that the marketing team is considered to be automatics marketing team so they think that they’re working on marketing they say that they’re working on marketing but it is is not marketing and um that is it you know we’re over here having arguments because Matt mullingwig says he puts in you know all of this money and does all of this stuff for WordPress
(11:52) but the truth is that’s happening at automatic that is not being all of that money yes it’s definitely advancing the core it’s you know it’s advancing some of the project definitely the community team the training team those are tangible things that are happening that impact the project but I haven’t gone through every single one of those profiles to like track what they’re actually doing I don’t have the time for that um but I can tell you if someone anyone we’re working 40 hours a week on the
(12:24) marketing there would be some movement on those tickets there would be some comments on those tickets it wouldn’t take people five days to get back to to someone when I tag them if they have insight into let’s say how WPTV works so I don’t know I I’m just I’m putting that out there because I don’t I’m you know this is on us to hold people accountable this is the same that same theme as last week this is us holding people accountable because if we are being told oh well Matt should get this this and
(12:55) this because he’s putting so much money in but we’re not allowed to actually even understand how much money is in or we don’t have any record of what work is being done with that money I don’t I don’t see the I don’t see it I have more to say but I also want to like pause and like give YouTube a chance to talk I’ve been monologuing all week Tucker is saying something but I do not hear him at all oh no sorry about that yeah yeah I mean I I work you know I work for a non-profit myself and so like
(13:39) the the way in which we get people to to help um you know pitch in and and do work with us and do stuff with us and everything we we track that stuff like we want to know how many hours people are involved in things like we’re not doing it to like um you know like there might be a dashboard or something like Courtney saying um but like we’re not doing anything like that it’s just more along the lines of just like you know effort was put in and here’s the results of a said effort and that’s kind of a yeah that’s kind of
(14:09) a cool thing to do because you can at least see that you know all this effort was put in but I think for like uh for you know because you can you can contribute two different ways one being as an individual or another one as an organization and as an organization one like my bosses would want to know what I was doing during that time they were paying me to do for someone else yeah and it turns out more and more that someone else is Matt that you’re actually working for and not necessarily for this like you know Community
(14:41) collection right well yeah yeah so and the other the other part regarding this is is the fact that you know when you’re when you’re an organization who is kind of running off of the software that you are paying someone to help contribute to you would kind of want to see the things you know this is going to be very you know like uh um selfish but like you’d want to see the things that you would like to see happen actually show up in it yeah but that’s like literally that’s understandable I
(15:12) mean as an as an individual I want to see the things that I’m working on happen like that’s yeah there’s you know and it’s not even I think that’s why people get so frustrated individually contributing because you really have to push to get something in and um this is actually something else I want to touch on when I’m talking about the automatic hours not the automatic hours although it’s the same thing the invisible hours the invisible automatic hours um I’ve Been Told uh uh by a former automatician so you
(15:44) you know it’s I don’t have this I don’t have the uh the employee reports or anything but um I have no reason to not believe my source um but essentially that you know we all feel we’re all over here like where are all these decisions coming from for the wp admin and the new design and the blah blah blah well um according to the source there’s literally people who work for wordpress.
(16:12) com like not part of the org uh not part of the org structure or whatever who are not logged and who are like completely invisible hours and aren’t on that page who also do programming for um for the dot org and there are also um the main thing that happens is that in order to do anything it’s not just a mat that you need to get approval by it’s also Matias who is essentially like the lead of Gutenberg and uh if you basically if Matthias doesn’t want it in it’s not going in so when talking about core specifically and we’ve we’ve
(16:47) touched on this before there’s this concept called blessed right this is going in this has been blessed um Well turns out guess who it’s being blessed by anyone an automatician maybe yes that’s right so either Matt or um uh uh Matthias so basically the the end okay so I’m also going to talk about my current experience I am currently right now we’re putting beta one out next week right now uh one of the leads for marcoms right for six four um and it turns out that in six three there’s a new element to the releases in
(17:28) that there will be a micro site for um each release which is basically a landing page but a micro site essentially is probably so we can regulate logins and all of that right so it’s just another little install on the site um so so it’s like uh so what team is in charge of that micro site I asked you know somewhat somewhat naively or but also knowing probably what my answer was and uh the answer was uh not really up to a team uh we’ve built it before um we’re gonna do the design we’re gonna
(18:01) do this we’ll get it set up and the automaticians chime in and they go who are not incidentally um part of the underrepresented squad they chime in and say uh oh I’d be happy to help I bet you would I bet you would be happy to help it’s your job and you’re coming they all come in there I’ll help I’ll help it’s like so now it’s like well what if we just said we wanted to do it do we get to no we do not actually get to so it’s not actually help it’s actually we have to go through them and
(18:31) it even says now in the marketing and Communications release guide for WordPress it references specifically another automatic team called Andromeda because apparently all of the automatic teams are named after space stuff very cool um so we’ve got Stargate uh who is the shadow marketing team then we have Andromeda who is the design team and the design team works again for automatic it’s uh one of the people in it is the person who put out the very long post about the redesigned admin um that was like Wow here’s my proposal
(19:09) and my ideas of a completely done thing and we’re all like where did all this work get done well it’s not in his free time it is being done in-house at automatic and then it is being given to the community and um that is it is literally being given as in you are doing this this is what is happening and so for all of us over here saying wow it really feels like you know we don’t have a lot of control or we don’t have you know a lot of say in what goes on well guess what we don’t because um I have you know we tried even trying
(19:48) to rewrite some of the things that are happening or asking questions it’s a this is the process we’ve written up this process and it says literally work with the Andromeda team and for social media it even says feel comfortable delegating freely to the social media team they’re here to write the content schedule the content put the content on the site uh so basically do all of it which is great if we’re not if we’re trying to cut down on work right because it’s so much work but the whole point is
(20:19) first of all it’s so much work because we’re on a schedule this is the third release of the year and now we’re like yep we’re releasing three every year and if we have three being released every year then we better hurry up and get this stuff out and you need people working on it all the time full time those people are all automaticians all of them so I you know we’re over here like oh you know does it seem like it’s fair you know oh it’s so great that he donates all this money and time
(20:52) but it’s not donating money and time to the community it’s donating people who retain control and take control and have control and are not sharing any of that control so I this this kind of makes me think I know it’s really depressing this this kind of makes me think of um weirdly uh the Washington post’s uh slogan that they’ve had for the past few years which is democracy dies in darkness but isn’t that the I thought that was the um I thought that was uh is that the Washington Post it’s the Washington Post
(21:32) um yeah democracy dies in darkness um basically having something that is supposed to democratize publishing something that is supposed to uh be for the users for the people for the people working by the people for the people yeah right right right right right you know this should have more of a democratic process and having these things happen in these silent channels this quiet work that’s happening I’m not a fan no it’s deception is what it is it’s it’s it’s deceiving it is saying one thing and doing another
(22:12) um first of all I’ve linked if you could show that link I linked the uh Communications and release guide so you can go see it uh it’s unless you know someone’s edited it I did notice that some of the automatic profiles have been edited since I started talking about this which is fun uh but the release guide I don’t think has been um and it’s still very clearly it looks to me honestly like that was taken from an automatic document because it’s written in the singular for if you are the release lead but in the community
(22:44) core there’s not one lead it’s never just one lead so this is specifically written this is your work and responsibilities if you are you know even says here with a Coley if you are leading the release with a co-lead or a trio like this is literally like the guidelines for the automaticians and usually we try to keep the automatic and secret team names out of that visual documentation right like it’s not like you know is you know godaddy’s team names aren’t on here dreamhost team names aren’t on here
(23:15) we’re not like referencing our internal chats that no one else can see um so uh this has been all Rewritten as of last uh the last release six three and that’s when the new micro site happened if you scroll down a little bit you’ll be able to see um that there where it talks about Andromeda and it talks about the delegating to the social media team and whatnot so um it’s in the official documentation now this is this is happening so I you know that alarms me to a great deal because if we’re just delegating all our
(23:48) work we’re I already feel like this is a joke I’m not leading anything right I’m in here maybe asking some questions I’m like doing some work but even the design team um who’s coming up with their own designs they get their work approved and reviewed by the Andromeda design team I believe that’s you know what they are and um at least by the Andromeda team and uh for example in this last one it was really funny because uh we have you know underrepresented gender have these amazing designs inspired by Bauhaus
(24:20) which is really cool um and uh you know got this cool asterisk and uh you know the designer the design cohort of the squad has their their figmas up and one of the automaticians is like well here’s my redo of it these are the ones I think we’ll just go in this direction and it’s like hmm that’s not taking a step back that’s not leading and it’s like oh I’m just collaborating it’s like if you have all the authority it’s not collaborating if you’re telling everybody what to do it’s not
(24:49) collaborating I am not in charge of anything in this release is that a dude doing that because that was a dude okay I’m I’m sorry what what is this really supposed to be yes it’s called underrepresented gender yeah I I guess they’re feeling I get I guess they’re feeling underrepresented because they they have to take a release off I’m not I’m not even claiming to know what this person’s gender is right like I don’t know I don’t I didn’t check their profile to see what their profile what
(25:25) that’s not the point the point is it’s an automatician who does the work every time for a release and is like coming in to you know put their spin on it or whatever and I mean that again is a um you know it’s a it’s it’s like this is what I’m saying it’s like I feel like I’m play acting in this release I’m like gonna do some work and then whatever and it’s like oh the real work is being done by these paid people and it’s not just sponsored contributors in general it is
(25:56) specifically automaticians and if we do not think if one of you if anyone listening to this thinks from one hot second that those conversations are not happening in an automatic slack and on automatic p2s you should think again because they are and there are it is just as you know probably a more communicated slack than ours is the the make Slack as as the person on this episode who actually does contribute to five for the future uh and and is sponsored uh by uh my place of work like to to do this sort of thing I really
(26:39) feel like I am maybe uh underestimating the amount of time that I put down I I tried to to be fair and a little while ago it was uh five hours a week uh and I realized I was doing a little more so I bumped that up to eight and eventually like yeah okay you would have thought about it you were like yeah you’re like how much am I actually Distributing I’m going to put in a real number here and it’s the work that you’re doing at your job for your job that happens to involve WordPress right like you’re not saying
(27:14) oh because I work with WordPress 40 hours a week I’m here 40 hours a week like what even are we talking about here you know like you’re talking about working in the hosting team you’re you know working on stuff like participating in meetings um it’s just oh it’s a joke and when when you were talking about the tagging yourself in a meeting like even after the fact and you know you know people do uh ketchup asynchronously uh I’ll I’ll see folks who uh especially will catch up asynchronously on a meeting that is
(27:49) not in their time zone um and you know they might they might chime in on threads and stuff like that or yeah right they might say oh I was here like catching up async and uh give no input but at least they’re being like informed on what’s Happening I mean even if they come to that thread and say Hi and then never look at another post I would I would at least have some doubt because it’s not like we’re tracking what people are reading but right for like if you’re not doing a single line of commenting on any GitHub issues there
(28:25) are there were 102 last week I think there’s like 106 or something wild now um we could use some actual sponsored paid help because turns out I’m busy you know what I’m busy doing freaking arguing with the CEO and filing code of conduct reports against him like you know my WordPress time is not being well used at the moment let’s just say um so I I am uh and yes I am filing a code of conduct violation report today those are some good hours that you’re submitting though I I don’t even I
(28:56) I updated my freaking profile it still says I think fi I may have upped it to like 10 hours when I became a a lead or something but I said five hours it’s just that’s lies but it’s in the other direction it’s like no it’s more like you know 20 hours a week and my clients would really like it if I would stop contributing to WordPress thank you their stuff would go a lot faster um I know we’re almost at time yeah I have some questions too oh okay well do you want to ask about those and then
(29:23) I’ll say my other little thing at the end I should try to say this thing um if you can hold on to it so what I’m but I’m trying to strategize here or trying to like figure out is like why why would how do I put this like why would um you have a bunch of people put a bunch of effort into a thing but then not actually use those efforts to like complete the thing it’s because it sounds like they’re doing their own internal work like yeah I know but yeah but why waste a whole bunch of people’s
(30:02) time that’s what I’m trying to figure out I mean it’s for control of the software like that’s what it is like we’re sitting over here thinking that this is you know this is what the real my real like philosophical struggle is right now because I believe in these principles uh but you know everyone’s always said Morton Rand Hendrickson right he’s like you guys are all working for Matt like many people are like we’re just working working for Math and like for free and to a certain degree we are and yeah
(30:31) watching the show doing the show should count right um uh it was just a comment from a listener there uh but I am I can’t that is the reason it is because he has control of the project and he has he has been increasing his control of the project and that is what the problem is with the whole SEO um the whole seo.org.
(30:58) com thing right like because the in the plugin directory because uh before wordpress.org was kind of like sacrosanct right like we all had this as our primary care and you know matzo going all over everywhere talking about how important open source is and these principles well now in his talk he’s talking about 100 year you know paid hosting plans for 38 000 and positive some capitalism and not really talking about you know Joseph is talking about the Four Freedoms but you know Joseph had no comment on any of this stuff officially in the thing so I don’t
(31:32) know you know great that’s talking about that but Matt isn’t and I’m pretty sure that he has you know he sees whoever making money and wants that but I can’t imagine why a company would want to increase their contribution for something like this when there really isn’t control so for example hosting companies right there is a conversation happening in hosting about also you know spurred by Matt’s uh actions and declarations uh there’s what what company should appear on the hosting page I mean in theory it
(32:08) should be related to five for the future right if you’re contributing you know X number of hours for five for the future then you get on the hosting page or you know and in fact uh there’s a whole proposed rubric happening for how someone should get on there um but the uh the word on the street is that the way that you get on there is by making a payment you you pay you pay and this is something I’ve heard from multiple sources um and you pay a lot of money to get on that so Bluehost pays a bunch of money
(32:37) to get on that page and uh you know as on Friday um last week uh Matt Matt told his uh the person who works directly for him Otto I love Auto High Auto if you’re watching um not not mad at you I know it’s your job uh he works for Matt directly through Audrey capital and he with no comments no whatever uh is basically the only one who can touch the hosting page and just added wordpress.
(33:09) com to the hosting page um which uh you know has all sorts of issues but the point is is that there’s a conversation happening in the hosting team about that making it fair making sure those people adhere to the rules making sure that there’s contribution back happening um and that’s an active conversation so for that to just be completely overridden and have that page get changed and someone else has decided now what’s going to go on there whether it’s.
(33:37) com or dot whoever um that’s really to me it’s a big Thumb in the thumb in the nose at the hosting team and again at the community which is the same thing when these videos get made that are for WordPress but the marketing team had nothing to do with it the design is coming uh the design the new designs for WordPress you know it’s all very dark mode whatever um we really have no say in that like there’s there’s there’s some transparency after the fact like for the Showcase that’s coming out it’s like
(34:05) here’s our designs but it’s not like we’re you know you can go comment on the figma but it’s like does that matter does it impact you know maybe they take it into consideration maybe they don’t who knows um but I can tell you it’s not it’s not transparent again democracy dies in darkness put a little sunlight on this yeah um I have one more thing I need to say uh before my rant is over and we’re already in overtime so I need to say this so uh as of this Wednesday uh you know there’s a Tavern article and
(34:39) I believe it happened on Wednesday that um the plug-in pages on wordpress.com got a little thing added to them which is a little hey you can download this plugin for free from the directory uh so everyone’s like Yay problem solved right well it turns out didn’t sound like it turns out that is a download button so that download button downloads directly the zip does not redirect to the plug-in page on wordpress.
(35:07) com so it’s a nofollow link for a zip because why would you do that right for zip but the kind of canonical can never say that word the canonical link guess where it goes just guess wordpress.biz yeah I really I don’t want someone to say it please tell me tell me where would that be wordpress.com that is wordpress.
(35:37) com good all right all right and he’s like nope uh link comes back here the download link those download so you can you can if you’re on the wordpress.com page you can download the plugin wow super helpful it doesn’t even say you can download this plugin for free on the repo it just says you can download this plugin on the repo and has a download button the downloads of the zip now you tell me what anyone who was confused about the.
(36:09) com dot org thing is going to do with that zip file drag it to their trash because they don’t know what the to do with it they open it folders and they’re like what and then what are people going to do they’re going to come to the forums and be like how do I make it happen but they’ll come to the.com forums and then.
(36:31) com will be like oh you need a business plan for that and they’ll be like Oh I thought WordPress was and they’re like it is like oh.com yeah and then I’m going to install all my stuff and click on links and get them installed easily look I was never a map apologist and I was never a matte hater but this is some like doctor like well it doesn’t it doesn’t go anywhere like that link goes to a download so it’s insane that has a bunch of like analytics on it that’s gonna say anything it just goes like what yeah man you downloaded it
(37:06) good job good job nothing happens now you can go read that readme file oh I am not kidding you Corey go look at it we’ll have um we’ll have the links in the in the show notes because there was there was some social media posts that people I untreated on my Twitter if you want to go check it out all about this lately follow if you follow that link in the show notes he will download a zip file and we will not tell you what to do with it you will just have to figure it out it’s just it’s just WordPress dot you’re just
(37:38) downloading WordPress that’s it you just downloading a copy of WordPress I like I just like can imagine someone clicking that button and a little thing goes into their browser window and then they’re like which what just happened what did I do wow what just happened right so that now I’m gonna get the business plan but don’t wear it so it was.
(37:57) com support like all the happiness Engineers are gonna be getting the question so I downloaded this plugin but I don’t know how to put it on my site and then they’ll be like well you can’t unless you have a paid business plan so you can have that free zip file here you go yeah here’s a free zip file for you it’s not just a paid plan but the paid business plan really it really is feels like that just adding that link was very much for the we hope you’re not paying attention hopefully this will get most of you to shut up it was for the
(38:31) article and everyone’s going to read the headline that says.com added links to.org and said yay we’re playing nice but they’re not they’re not playing nice that’s not nice that’s that’s deceitful at the very best uh and that’s the problem here and I would like to point out uh I still have not gotten a retraction or apology for the implication that I have been sitting here you know attacking Matt privately or publicly I’m I everything that I’m saying this is the most I have attacked
(39:04) Matt right now right here uh where I’m literally saying this is a disingenuous Shady um you know like literally like it feels so patronizing like pat pat you got your little link but bye are you kidding me anyway so I don’t know what we’re gonna do about that but because again I don’t know you know I I think people I we need to make records of it we need to talk about it we need to everybody get in this lock and come to meetings like I don’t I’m not really sure yeah I mean look Mika the like literally the the
(39:40) plug-in Queen right it should just go to the plug-in page like it’s not rocket science it could be a tiny little text link that says uh learn more about this plug-in and download it for free here that will work right and then it goes to the plug-in page and then you’re on your own but at least it’s not some yeah because you know what a zip file is it’s some especially if they can’t like there’s like trying to upload their zip file to their.
(40:08) com now like what I mean I’m not asking them to go like a step closer and like do like a mastodon thing where it pops up saying like typing your domain name and then it like feeds everything into the post to like feed them into the uh the plugins page on the website and then lets them upload it I’m not asked asking for all that but like Mika saying like I need to just go over to wordpress.
(40:31) org plugin um you know details page and be good if if.com is not willing to put a link to dot org then it’s not it’s not syncopatic what’s that word sync I don’t know something it’s not a poop.zip uh it is not uh it is not working in tandem it is working against dot org and that is the problem like I was I’m I have said millions of times totally fine I like the idea you know he made a foundation made this non-profit stuff is happening like I want to give credit where credit is due but you do not get to like
(41:10) undo that stuff and then still also claim that you’re doing that stuff like that’s not how that works you know like so um yeah since since hosting companies are now allowed and I know we’re getting far afield from our five from the future uh all related here of course of course it’s all everything ties into itself uh but uh now uh since they’ve been given permission if a hosting company turns around and makes their own dupe of uh the plug-in repository who’s going to be CEO Juice uh I I don’t I don’t know I
(41:49) will help them I just want you to know I’ll just stay on the top I I will say if if they do it they need to not be chicken and just link to the zip they need to link to the actual plug-in page like they need to the thing is for all the hosts that would actually in theory that would be fine because if you have any any WordPress on any other host no matter it’s the tiniest little blue or cpanel quick install you can use the plugins you know what I mean like any other host has an incentive to link to.org to show
(42:25) the plugins to you know here’s our highlighted plugins and you can go get it over there we don’t care where you get it get it from here get it from there you can use it on our platform but it that download link is a big whatever gesture you want to choose for your particular culture go ahead and put it there but it is definitely disrespectful at the very least and it is um absolutely intended to quiet everybody down and say oh we fixed that problem um but that doesn’t fix the idea that five for the future is people are being held you
(42:59) know it’s completely as far as those numbers go like I don’t believe they have any veracity whatsoever like automatics numbers or anyone else’s like it is it’s a big joke so as far as Matt wanting to sit there I donate all this money whatever you know like GoDaddy donates a lot of money too and they were hit up to pay extra for the community Summit when they decided they were going to pay for people stuff so you know it’s not like they’re only going to automatic for funding right like there are other people other
(43:27) companies in the community funding and trying to fund more and um this is just it is literally anti everything WordPress so you know is in terms of fighting for the future um I again I don’t at the point have a that’s really funny I don’t have a um uh a solution at the moment we’re gonna talk uh in some upcoming episodes about some other Solutions and what’s happening across Tech right customer yeah oh yeah oh yeah we are we’re not done um so you know let’s keep having this conversation because this conversation I
(44:12) mean at the very least this issue has concerned people and I can tell you that there are a lot of philosophical questions happening at um Matt’s company um because they all tell me because guess what he is actually their boss he’s not my boss right so he can’t hurt me but he is actually their boss and he can fire them and I don’t know if you want to consider that but if the environment in the volunteer world is like this then the environment in the actual I pay your salary world like I mean talk about
(44:44) a chilling effect like no one’s saying anything anything because they literally cannot like I was telling contributors at word campus you should probably not post a picture with me and that was before all this happened now I’m like you should just not being associated with me publicly because it could hurt your job like how messed up is that it’s messed up anyway I’m I’m still really pissed about the fact that we have all these people pledged to the marketing team and we have all these Open tickets and like unless I do
(45:16) something or like I explain to like some of our other people how to do something like nothing’s happening because they refuse to do it and they they didn’t even they didn’t even answer the social question the automaticians in last week’s meeting they didn’t even say you know my favorite soda is Coca-Cola or whatever the hell it was like it just like it’s it’s just a big uh nose thumb and uh I uh I’m I’m upset about it because I work hard for this community and I do a lot of work for this community and um
(45:49) I don’t want to work for Matt I don’t want to work for Matt for free for sure so if we’re working for Matt and not for our open source Community then that’s not five for the future that’s five for Matt but I know I don’t want to work for him because he’s he’s not a good leader and uh right five five for whose future yeah five for the Hundred Year hosting plan at wordpress.
(46:12) com which needs wordpress.org to exist um yeah right I don’t get that 38 000. what what do you what do you what what do you folks say that we keep this one at a trim 45. yeah remember when the show used to be half an hour back in the day back when say didn’t have like ramps to do and Truth bombs to drop I I really need anyone who’s listening to this to to tell people this that’s what I need that’s what I’m asking like everyone assumes that things are fine even on another podcast I listened to uh last week because someone sent it to me
(46:49) uh Jason no not Jason too many Jason’s Jonathan Wold and Luke carbus or something like that I believe uh they have a little podcast called crossword and in it uh it’s only 15 minutes so I listened to it um and in it Luke was like well Joseph was everywhere Joseph was all up in the project everywhere and I was like is she because I feel like I’m everywhere in the project and I don’t see her so I don’t know like I feel like people have the idea that the community is running the releases people have the
(47:20) idea that the community is functioning properly people are like oh that’s fine we’re just gonna do stuff over here and it’s a little difficult to do things sometimes so I’m just gonna do over here and the community will be fine yeah it’s going to be fine because it’s going to be literally all run by automaticians because the people who aren’t automaticians are literally being bullied out aka me like if we do not think that Matt’s goal was to get me to drop out of WordPress like
(47:48) of course it was that’s his whole goal like like as far as I’m concerned he just wants to maybe not his whole goal but of a pretty pretty big one on the list yeah like it’s it’s you know probably some discrediting intentions in there also but whatever anyway um five for the future has potential uh but not if it’s all a bunch of Lies talk to y’all later and like us and stuff on Apple podcast Google podcast Spotify YouTube Facebook LinkedIn not Twitter X um we do have a website and it’s
(48:32) currently built in WordPress also and uh come chat with us in the Discord it’s uncensored

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One response to “EP464 – Fight for the Future”

  1. Zack Katz Avatar

    @jasontucker @rawrly @boogah @sereedmedia @wpwatercooler I so appreciate @sereedmedia! Great to hear more details directly from Sé. Well done addressing the myriad issues.


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