EP435 – WordPress Takes Flight: Community in a Post Twitter World

Jason Tucker: [00:00:00] This is WPwatercooler, episode number 435. WordPress takes flight community in a post Twitter world.

Sé Reed: Oh,

Jason Tucker: I’m Jason Tucker. You can find me as Jason Tucker on Twitter still, but you can find me Jason Tucker on most things.

I’m Sé Reed media at all the things, including, some of the stuff we’re gonna talk about today, but literally everywhere. Just

Jason Cosper: And y’all know who it is. It’s your boy Jason Cosper, AKA Fat. Mullenweg Don’t follow me on Twitter, please.

Jason Tucker: Speaking of not following Cosper on Twitter, you can also follow us on, various social media

Sé Reed: come to our

Jason Tucker: that you can hang out with us on

Sé Reed: to our discord.

Jason Tucker: Come and hang out with

Sé Reed: Hey, we actually have the solution in that slide. So who even needs this episode? Just done. Problem [00:01:00] solved.

Jason Cosper: WordPress community just all come to our discord and

Sé Reed: on over. Come on over. Come on over, baby.

Jason Cosper: We have a guest.

Sé Reed: a guest. Sorry.

Jason Tucker: we have a

Jan, welcome.

Jason Tucker: Hey, how you doing?

Jan Boddez: Good

Jason Cosper: Why don’t you go

Oh crap, I got

Jason Cosper: about your

Sé Reed: He’s What did I get myself into?

Jan Boddez: Kind of I, but yeah, no All right.

Sé Reed: was late the pre-show today folks, so Y just met me. So you must understand that he has to get adjusted for a minute. So

yeah.

Sé Reed: back

Jason Tucker: So Casper’s out staying, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Sé Reed: yeah.

Jan Boddez: Yeah, I think, I’ll start with the WordPress stuff, So I have been

Sé Reed: Is there other stuff that we

Jan Boddez: Yeah. There’s other stuff I was just telling Jason,

Sé Reed: now I wanna talk about the other stuff.

Jan Boddez: my, like the whole web development isn’t actually my job, but that’s, so let’s keep [00:02:00] that let’s keep that bit. So I’ve been building websites for I think 20 years, maybe a little more as a hobby.

and a big part of that has been WordPress, and PHP in general, and a bunch of other stuff like front end, whatever. so yeah, that’s that. And then I think a couple years back I started to take a little bit more seriously, build website as a sort of a side hustle, as well, mostly WordPress again.

so it’s a. No, it’s a hobby turned into something more, but it’s still a side, very much a side thing for me. And then I, so purely as a hobby, I started picking up building plugins and stuff and

Sé Reed: is your side piece? Is that what you’re telling us

Jan Boddez: it’s my side hustle,

Jason Tucker: side hustle,

Jan Boddez: I think is what the cool call. Yeah, whatever. so yeah, it’s still a hobby.

Got a little bit more seriously, but it’s not my main. My main thing,what was I gonna say? Oh, yeah. So a couple years back I got into, [00:03:00] I was quite, I used to be quite active on Twitter, by the way,quite relevant. and then I didn’t really like it anymore. And then, Ma alone came up and then I went over there and it wasn’t for me, but a year later I did make the move.

So I’ve been there for, I think, four years or make a little bit more. And then when I was on there, I learned. Indie web, which is, like a related concept, taking, let’s say a claiming ownership of your online identity, right? So moving away from all the, the walled gardens, the silos,the baked social networks, social media platforms, and instead build out your own website and so on.

Use that basically as you. your,your online home, what it should be, so And yeah, that’s how it kind

Jason Tucker: Which is

Jan Boddez: in web

Jason Tucker: is a

Jan Boddez: then I made some plugins related to that. Yeah, that’s what I was going for, getting at.

Jason Tucker: Yeah. a lot of people essentially made Twitter as like their home base for doing, stuff.

Jan Boddez: it on all [00:04:00] the, conferences. It’s add whatever your handle is. that’s who I am. That’s how people know you. and yeah, the indie web, movement, let’s say they would rather have it be your domain name,

Jason Cosper: Sure.

Jason Tucker: Or somebody else’s domain name could be is the other thing, yeah, not a, I think Wal Garden is the, is a nice term because like Twitter, at Facebook, they used to have RSS feeds and then they killed them off, and then they had the, they still have, I think, an api, but then they closed bits of it or made it harder to, to do certain things through them. so I think it’s, So we wanna, like you can get suspended for not really any reason, and you cannot talk to a human. Like they’ll just, you try to get your account back and all you get is like automatic messages that are not helping at all. And this yeah, I’ve seen it happen to just regular people, but also like local politicians and, Someone that [00:05:00] works like a journalist or something.

Jan Boddez: Like they really rely on Twitter for their job, essentially, and then they get suspended for no reason. And it took, I think in the case of the, it may not have been a journalist, but someone that works for the, yeah, like local radio or something. They got their account back I think after a year. So if you depend on that, it’s not nice.

So I’m tell also people in, academics,researchers and stuff, they love to post, Twitter thread. Where they explain, you don’t want to go and read all the papers, because on, on things that are not, that you don’t know too much about, but then they explain it very nicely for regular folks.

on Twitter only. so you need an account, to follow all that because if you try to open it without account, it’ll, you scroll down, it’ll bug you, sign up and you can’t read. So if they instead put all that on their personal websites Or on a new, open source, kind of social network, like the Fedi vers, then anyone could basically read it.

Jason Tucker: and I think the thing is a lot of people that are, that have been using for [00:06:00] Twitter for, a decade now or more, they’ve now gotten to the point where they’re so used to how Twitter works that you throw them into some place like Mastodon. They really don’t understand like how this stuff actually works.

for instance, when you and I and Cosper were all talking via direct message, I didn’t look into direct messages yet. Like I didn’t look to see is a direct message separate from a normal message and can anyone read this message or not? And so I was very hesitant to, I even asked you, I’m like, Can you send me your email address?

Jan Boddez: And I was thinking, I haven’t looked to see how direct messages even work in this space. It’s the same, luckily,

Jason Tucker: So I

it, it depends. yeah, I was just trying to figure out like, is this going to be an issue or not? By

it’s, I think the one difference is that if you mention like a third person, they will actually be included in the conversation. So you don’t want to go and talk behind someone’s back that.

Jason Tucker: Yeah,

Jan Boddez: one difference with,from Twitter dms. Otherwise it’s the same. And one warning that you often [00:07:00] see, pop up is, watch out.

Don’t post anything, too private because your instance admin could read it,

that’s what,which is the

Jan Boddez: case. But of course for Twitter staff, it’s the same thing, right?

on Twitter yesterday, they just, everyone quit. I dunno if you saw that. But the people who didn’t quit all the chief compliance officer, Chief Privacy Officer, they all quit and said that engineers, did you already

Sé Reed: cover this? Sorry.

no. We haven’t

Sé Reed: The engineers will be responsible for enforcing

compliance completely, not even talking about the congressional order that they’re under for compliance, but like extra compliance, but for basic compliance.

And so I was reading yesterday that the, those folks now not working there are saying, just fyi, all of your, oh no, it was,a media outlet, I can’t remember who it was, but put out an internal memo that said, just consider your Twitter to be not secure and only don’t leave your account so that someone can impersonate you.

You stop giving out your handle on the air. I think it [00:08:00] was NPR actually. Stop giving out your handle on the air. and just. stop, because they’re not, because they’re no, no longer confident in the security of those messages and of that platform in general, because they were before, so like direct messages and whatnot, that, that was regarded as a secure channel for journalists or, whistle blowing.

Jan Boddez: Oh yeah.

a lot of the journalists who do deal in like whistle blowing and things like that have always treated Twitter and Twitter dms as if they’re not secure. I know that,

Jan Boddez: They’re not end to end encrypted, is what I wanted to say. So some social, or, chat apps are, but very well, very little apps in fact are. And

Jason Cosper: a number.

Jan Boddez: if you host a website, any, anything, a WordPress website, you

can. Go and look into the database if it’s not encrypted.

it’s more that I think. I think from that angle, it was more that it wasn’t going, not that Twitter. Wouldn’t ever look at it, or is it completely secure [00:09:00] from internally? It was more about third party actors. And I think,really just the, given the closeness of Elon Musk with, Bottomer Putin,a secure, like that kind of security, not just Oh, are my dms gonna be like, exposed somewhere.

Sé Reed: But really that like the like global security level,

which is a

Jason Cosper: I, remember that the thing I was trying to get at is, I remember even just a few years ago, I know that there are journalists who work for Vice and maybe Ronan Farrow had something at one point where effectively it was, hey. If you want to give me like a, a scoop or anything like that, hit me up on signal.

And then they would give a number that was tied to signal because they were like, at least that is end to end encrypted. At least that’s not sitting here in Twitter. Dms where any employee can come along. And I work at a web hosting company and, a number of the employees there, could effectively access

any server.

I’ve worked at three, I’ve.[00:10:00]

Sé Reed: It’s the same conversation of the core contributors and who has access to the fire hose of information on the back end of WordPress that we recently have been discussing within the WordPress community when regard with regard to the active growth,the plugin data that’s coming in.

So this question like we all know this also, that if you are administering the back end, you can see stuff like this is not like, there’s not

I think it’s good to warn, let’s say, yeah, non-technical people, that this is indeed possible. I think that extra risk of a federated, social network or a service like Macon or the Fed in fact, is that I think there has been some issues in the beginning where certain apps, would not treat direct messages as.

Jan Boddez: Because the concept was only newly introduced. and I think, I don’t know if it exists within the activity pub protocol as such, or if that it could also be that LON or [00:11:00] a similar app was like the first to say, Okay, we’re also gonna do dms and this is what they look like. And then some, other servers

didn’t know how to treat them and they ended up not being so private anymore. So that, that’s the thing, that’s the risk

Sé Reed: We all had IQ and A L I M. I have literally no idea if they were

secure or not. None.

Jan Boddez: Yeah,

Sé Reed: No.

Jan Boddez: it’s good. It’s good to know. The thing is, if you send stuff to another instance, to another server, their admin is not your admin. you might not trust them. They could like store stuff even after you delete them on your server. They could still keep them around theoretically. it could happen.

Jason Tucker: And that’s what got me

Jan Boddez: be aware of this sort of thing.

Jason Tucker: that’s what got me thinking about the direct message thing that I was mentioning earlier, is that I didn’t even realize if by saying something as a direct message, if it was actually being posted publicly with just the shroud or around it of saying this is a, this is.

Yeah, like the, it just, it was tagged as such. I didn’t realize if it was or was not. So it’s, it was [00:12:00] a, I didn’t know, I didn’t know what to expect cuz I haven’t direct messaged anybody yet. the second Jan and I started talking about stuff online, I was like, You know what, let’s just go to the thing that I know works here.

Let’s do email

Jan Boddez: Yeah. No, it’s,it’s supposed to, It works as a

Sé Reed: So millennial

Jan Boddez: it’s good to be aware of the potential risks.

Jason Tucker: Yeah, I wasn’t necessarily worried about someone who ran one of our servers getting your email address. Like I, and I would’ve gladly gave up my email address to the administrator as well. But it was more along the lines of I didn’t want someone to just scrape it off of the, the public feed and then it starts spamming us with, crypto stuff or what have you.

So that, that was more the thing I was worried about security wise was that, So I wanted to bring us back a little bit on, now that we’re halfway through the show, we might as well start the show, but this idea of having people that were on Twitter, and we’ve had, we’ve even had a comment earlier before the show even started, that we’re essentially making fun.

A little bit of the fact that we were [00:13:00] talking about

how, WordPress takes flight community in a post Twitter

Sé Reed: Look, we worked really hard on that headline.

Okay.

Jason Tucker: I know we did. come on

flight with a bird, Twitter bird. we threw it all together. But the idea

Sé Reed: I

Jason Tucker: are

leaving

Sé Reed: of,

Jason Tucker: people are leaving Twitter. not only are they leaving it, but they’re also being fired from it.

And it’s like they’re all moving away and going to other places. Now is

everyone moving?

Sé Reed: doesn’t, Here’s the thing, I, it doesn’t really matter if they want to move at this point. the, I know, he might turn it around. and this is so weird because I hate talking about this. one person, like Elon Musk may do the, but it’s actually just up to him. this is not Oh, the servers could work out, or maybe people will donate enough or any, No, it’s literally what this guy does.

So like that guy might pull it out through some, yeah. I’m not , I am not convinced, but the most recent theories that I’ve been seeing are that he cannot, and I’ve [00:14:00] retweeted this, but because he cannot, essentially, it’s, he’s hemorrhaging advertisers, users, all of the above. His next best option is bankruptcy and like literally running the company into the ground in order to recoup some funds or at least not be responsible for, their debts, whatever.

I don’t know what crazy financial instruments they can all get themselves into, but that’s a real possibility. So it’s not even whether or not we want to be part of Elon’s world or The security isn’t there or if there’s a, if we have to pay $8 a month, that’s another question.

Sé Reed: Are we all gonna pay, even if it does stay, But it’s really about is it gonna be there? Like the, my space, remember my space, We were all

Jan Boddez: Oh Yeah.

doing our things. and

Jan Boddez: one seems to remember, but

Sé Reed: I had a front row seat to that. My

brother was one of the, main, programmers for MySpace.

He built the top eight. I don’t know if I’ve ever said that. I haven’t said it in a long time, but I wasn’t very proud of him. so He was responsible for [00:15:00] social, uproar throughout high schools and junior

high schools

Jason Tucker: It could have been 10, but he picked

eight.

he drew, he created the dragon drop, which actually revolutionized that layout, but, Shortly after Rupert Murdoch and, Fox Corp or whatever they were purchased MySpace, he literally started gutting it.

Sé Reed: He took. My brother and a bunch of what his team was and shuffled them off into this special team that I basically think they never launched any products from, that they had all this whole stuff. And I basically feel like they took them over there to be like, You guys just play, We’re gonna pay you a lot of money to play over here.

And they took they took all of the best mind MySpace and put them over here. And then the platform itself just. Because Facebook had Facebook events and that’s what they had been working on. And so everyone started to migrate to Facebook events cuz Facebook has always done events and groups. their thing.

So it, it collapsed. It collapsed because they got rid of all of [00:16:00] the innovative engineers that were literally pioneering, the medium. And then they didn’t have a product that was as good or as easy to use or as functional as the other. Thing and it literally collapsed and it’s still there if you go to it, whatever, But like it’s so real.

And we all were part, all of us witnessed the.com bubble. I was part of it. I lost my streaming job in like 2000

Jason Tucker: Same via text message. I lost mine.

Jason Cosper: Okay, but,

Sé Reed: before screaming like

no one even had the thing. Anyway, my point here, I know I’m rambling, sorry, but my point is, It’s not just about whether or not we want to stay, it’s that will we be able to stay if everyone has to pay $8 a month? Is it the same thing at all? Is it even what we’re doing?

so I think the question is more of we might stay, but what if we don’t stay? What if it really is a post Twitter world and we’re not being dramatic? William Voice

Jason Cosper: [00:17:00] Especially since,the MySpace death was a slow death of about what, 12, 18, 24 months. People were just migrating away. They were leaving. And, Twitter, it seems like they’re just speed running their way through, killing a

Sé Reed: company. Wow.

Have any of you listened to any of the calls? The live streams that he’s been doing on Twitter spaces, which by the way, hilarious to like broad. It’s like broadcasting your own demise. It’s like this weird meta thing. It’s meta. but he’s, he literally has been saying things like, Yeah, I don’t know.

It could be like this. I think it’s I like doing this. So like he, he is so detached from the sales people on the caller like, maybe they’re like trying to be so diplomatic and they’re like, maybe our, this might be what our advertisers care about. A little . He’s whatever.

it’s wild.

Jan Boddez: it comes

Jason Tucker: You’re gonna say something.

it’s good to, to, what we said before, [00:18:00] right? take back ownership of your online identity. don’t let it depend on a network that’s run by whoever,It can be someone else the next day and they take it all down. And I was also reminded because you brought up Facebook, I think on the indie web wiki, they have a page where they list, social platforms, deaths and then it says like MySpace.

Jan Boddez: Apparently, I think they pivoted to like music after everyone had already left to Facebook. And then they lost all the data. Before 2000 something. I don’t know what year exactly, but I think if I remember correctly, that I found out, I found out there and I was like, Yeah, you don’t want that happening if, if your job depends on it.

Or even for any reason

really. yeah.

Sé Reed: Oh, delicious. Remember

delicious.

I don’t think

Jan Boddez: Oh, absolutely.

are used to, Is this what I’m saying? Like we’re used

Sé Reed: to the change. this feels just the loss of,

Jan Boddez: It used to one. Yeah. I post all my bookmarks on my website now,

Jason Cosper: Yeah,

Sé Reed: [00:19:00] website.

Jan Boddez: and I syndicate them to.

I think this is also why people care so much when the benevolent dictator of WordPress. Acting in a . I’m trying to be diplomatic here. is concerned, people are concerned about ownership of the software and direction of

Sé Reed: the platform. Cause we’re

the maslon creator gets the same kind of criticism, and some of it may be, I, it’s for a reason I suppose. The good thing is that anyone can control their own server and fork the software and whatever,

Jan Boddez: which You cannot do with, Twitter for instance.

You can do that with WordPress. You can do that with

Sé Reed: Ma Don. There is

Jan Boddez: exactly. And that makes them a whole lot better already, even if they have their own flaws or you don’t necessarily agree with leadership.

Jason Cosper: Right when it comes to, if my social site, that I’m using is gonna live or die, I’d rather be the one to blame for [00:20:00] my, website going offline cuz I didn’t pay the domed. if I, if my social media, if my, internet presence is going to be destroyed by somebody, I would much rather it be.

Than some guy who’s worth, millions or billions or whatever of dollars, like

I like,

Sé Reed: Who’s just doing it for

Jan Boddez: my site live and it happens often enough that I break something. I don’t care cuz it’s my little online playground.

Sé Reed: And this is why the WordPress and open source matters and matters more than ever, honestly, Because we can take it, we can have local, it isn’t dependent on capitalism. the whims of billionaires, like whatever you wanna call that. Like it, if Twitter can just be bought and sold like it’s a car, then you know, It’s exactly why open source matters.

And to that point, speaking of Matt Mullenweg, he has been talking a lot about Tumblr on his site. And there I’m really fascinated by the fact that everyone’s [00:21:00] going to Mastodon instead of Tumblr, which seems like just like an easy, like one over instead of ma it on, which is like everyone’s super confused about, at least in the beginning. So I’m not really, I think it has a lot to do with Tumblr’s marketing, and their just whole approach. But nonetheless, Matt and Tumblr have been, experiencing, Tumblr’s been experiencing an increase in registrations, and Matt’s been talking about it, and he reiterated his desire to make Tumblr open source at some point, which,

Jan Boddez: an activity pop compatible, lately, or at least that ideas been, let’s say floated, launched or been floating around. I

only maybe yesterday or so, I don’t know. I know they also wanted

Sé Reed: Which idea?

Sorry, I missed what you said.

Jan Boddez: To implement to, to make it activity pub, compatible. So basically make Tumblr part of the . And I even before they wanted to add, I don’t know if it’s done yet, but micro formats, So like they wanted to mark up their site, so put something in the code that would make it, also part of

the indie web, and [00:22:00] nowadays, so it’s,

it’s got

Jan Boddez: They’re overlapping concepts, But it’s all the same thing.

Like you wanna, I don’t know. I also see RSS

feeds mentioned a whole lot because It’s,

Sé Reed: the problem with.

Jan Boddez: content out there and you wanna control

how,

Sé Reed: The problem with

Jan Boddez: it does.

Sé Reed: Sorry. The problem with RSS feeds and a lot of the web publishing component is that it lacks the exchange, and that is the social component of social media. So an RSS feed, you can get your stuff out and you can get your stuff in, there’s no.

Jan Boddez: are applic, there are readers that are working on it. In fact, it’s really cool. There’s about, yeah, I don’t know, maybe 20 people using them.

it’s super cool though.

Sé Reed: You’re like really edge case over here. You’re like, so

there’s

Jan Boddez: of stuff and I hope it, it gets some traction. beside Maslon and the feds and I, [00:23:00] or even, why, if it’s all interoperable,

then that would be even better.

I think that’s really the key, right? If it is, I interoperable, then it makes something like Tumblr. Tumblr has that engagement sort of that you can have that back and forth and that conversation. And Mastodon also has that. So like connecting all of those

Sé Reed: things and.

Jan Boddez: can, Yeah. And there’s an

activity pub plugin for WordPress. So I don’t know. I don’t know what all of

Sé Reed: the

Jan Boddez: Yeah.

Jason Tucker: Yeah,

Jan Boddez: to bring it back to WordPress, but maybe it doesn’t

matter. so yeah. it’s, I hope,

Sé Reed: can bring it back to WordPress.

Jason Tucker: Go for it.

the exchange, That social part is what has made, Twitter. The WordPress community within Twitter, so valuable. It was on Facebook, the word the WordPress community was on Facebook. Huge in groups, advanced WordPress.

Sé Reed: That was a huge part of The teens. The teen years of WordPress, right? Facebook groups. All of you were in it, in them. Cosper. I don’t know about you Jan. but that was a big part [00:24:00] of getting to know people and people hanging out in there and commenting and that type of thing. And then that really.

Moved to Twitter. A lot of that conversation moved to Twitter and kept that idea that because it was like an ongoing conversation and like how at Word camps, if you’re having a conversation with someone, you leave the space open for someone to walk up and join the conversation. And Twitter had that openness, which was also captured in the, advanced WordPress. Group and various, all the Facebook groups because anyone could comment and anyone could ask a question, and it felt very open, which mirrored that word camp experience. And

I

Jason Cosper: Anyone could ask a question so long

as they had a Twitter or Facebook account. That’s

Sé Reed: meant in those communities, anyone could ask a question. Yeah, obviously there

Jan Boddez: that account. Yeah.

Sé Reed: But in theory, anyone could have a

Twitter account. and do they speak English, et cetera, et cetera. We, there’s a lot of that, but I’m talking about within those communities, they built and grew and strengthened because the dialogue was there.

It was like [00:25:00] being in a room, right? It was very much that, like a chat room deal where you had dialogue, you got to know people and Twitter. Especially social because for example, I don’t just post WordPress stuff, right? I post about my toddler, or I post about, how much coffee I drink, which is a lot.

so you get to know people personally, like Tucker posts about his, his daughter’s water polo games and his woodworking and, you pop, Cosper posts about his hat. I was gonna read your name. Then I was like, whoever this guy is, activity pub over here posts about his. And like we get to know people beyond just what themes they’re working on or what WordPress, plugin may need right now.

Sé Reed: And that is has been a huge strength, I believe, for the WordPress community that we have become friends and that’s part of what Twitter is. That’s why people are mourning the loss of Twitter. We’re losing a place where we. Meeting people and hanging out with our friends and getting to know people better and seeing their kids.

Same thing with Facebook, but we didn’t mind Facebook as much as that loss because we had Twitter. And now [00:26:00] we are like losing Twitter. And I think the complicated part becomes because of the Federated Nation Federation, federated like way that it is, it feels very disparate, right? It feels very much silo.

You have to go find the people to follow. So it’s not just Hey, I’m saying something and then, some WordPress from Kansas might see it and, do that. So we are in

Jan Boddez: It can be a good thing. It depends.

Sé Reed: everything depends, but I’m, that’s what I’m talking about, the loss of specifically and how or where that can be, moved to next or where that will end up next, I think ma.

Provides that, because you can, you can have the intake and the outtake in exchange, but there’s

Jason Cosper: a, an.

Sé Reed: things, so it can, it’s be

interesting.

Jason Cosper: An interesting thing, and I know we’re pushing up, We, we just hit the 30 minute mark. But, an interesting thing that is [00:27:00] coming in, Master on 4.0 is the ability to follow hashtags. this is something,some clients allow you to mark like a hashtag that you can watch and go back to

Jan Boddez: Yeah, I was doing that, but yeah.

I, updated, the Masteron server that I’m running that, that Tucker and I are

Jason Cosper: on, say, has an open invite to join whenever she wants

Sé Reed: And me and that rodeo is hilarious every time

I see it,

By the way.

I also just moved to version four. I love the edit, function.

Jason Cosper: The edit function is great and the ability to follow hashtags, and it’s cool because when you follow a hashtag, it just puts it in your feed. So I followed hashtag WordPress and I’ll see something pop up and it’ll be like,it will say, I’m used to Oh, boosted by this person. I’m like, I don’t follow this person.

And I go, Oh, they have hashtag WordPress in there, and it’s just in my feed and I can follow it and I can see,people out there are [00:28:00] saying and, pick up on conversations that I’ve, would’ve otherwise missed. I’m not gonna sit there in Twitter. I’m sure I could open up like tweet deck or something like that and have that hashtag followed, but this just

makes it like all part of the experience and it’s so nice.

I think this is why that specifically and

Sé Reed: the hashtag thing is a big deal, especially since I think some of the WordPress retweet bots got, shut down also. But, I think that, yeah, I agree. Mastodon does allow you to have that. So I think after the initial hump maybe of getting over there, that, my expectation is that’s where it’s going to be because it has so much.

But also because it has the social aspect and so I think, I don’t think it has rooms or groups, any other, it has servers. we’ll see what happens in all the next iterations. But I think it’s probably where the conversation’s moving. That’d be my

Jason Tucker: And with that, we end our show. I wanna say that we’re probably gonna have to have

yn back [00:29:00] on again, so we can actually talk about plugins and solutions and

Sé Reed: and whatever that, whatever the

Jason Tucker: scare

that I was,we

did,

Jan Boddez: I’m actually enthusiastic about

Jason Tucker: But if we didn’t, if we didn’t scare you already, Jan, we’d love to have you come back and come hang out with us and talk about this stuff.

we have, we barely even talked about some of the indie web stuff that has been here for years, but also between that and

Jan Boddez: would be a nice topic. Yeah.

we would love to make all these things,work together here and start discussing it. So thank you very much. Here’s our.

Jan Boddez: Welcome.

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You can also listen to us as a podcast on Apple Podcast, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, all the places. And if you wanna watch us, we’re over on YouTube, Facebook. I’m gonna have us on the Fed verse at some point here as well to talk you all later. See ya.