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In this episode, Jason and Bridget take a small break in their format to chat about developments this week in the WordPress ecosystem. How will these changes affect how plug-in businesses and freelancers market if at all? Tune in.

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The WPwatercooler network is sponsored by ServerPress makers of DesktopServer. Be sure to check them out at as well as Kinsta.

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Jeff Chandler Leaves WPTavern

Bridget thinks his editorial voice will be sorely missed.

Journalism tries to get both sides whereas editorial content should have opinion.

Jason was more intrigued by the use of service accounts for connected services on multi user websites.

Both Bridget and Jason wonder who will now provide timely, non-biased WordPress news. “Hot takes on” is still valid news. And, honestly, most of us who comment on WordPress are also Inside Baseball. So, we’re commenting with our own source material.

Thanks, Jeff for being awesome for ten years!

Bridget’s Trip to Montréal

Bridget loved WordCamp Montréal. It was extra special because she got to see Breann McDede’s first presentation.

Also, it was really neat to see how the WordPress community in Montréal embraces bilingualism. As Michel Bluma says, “#BonjourHi.”

PHP 7.5 — P++ Ending Backwards Compatibility

From PHP Storm.

P++ – The controversy and accusations in PHP Internals over the removal of short tags <?explicit call-site send-by-ref syntax, and other discussions eventually resulted in an unexpected proposal from Zeev Suraski – create a new PHP dialect. The working name P++ is not accidental here, as Zeev suggests creating a “sister” language, like C++ for C. PHP and P++ are supposed to be developed side by side within a single runtime. In the new P++ it will be possible to implement a lot of revolutionary improvements, to deprecate legacy, and clear things up without thinking about backward compatibility. Since the language would have new branding, it would not have this bad reputation. A “classic” PHP would get all the performance and other non-syntax features but maintain backward compatibility.” Roman Pronskiy

How does this affect WordPress?

WordPress 5.0 created an unintentional fork, Bridget says, because plugin and theme developers have three choices:

  1. Support 5.0
  2. Support 4.9.x
  3. Support Both

All of those choices are business resource decisions.

Some people say PHP’s decision to possibly abandon backward compatibility won’t affect WordPress. (Click the heading for the PHP storm article.)

“1) Shortcodes ≠ short tags
2) PHP 7.4 is already in beta and will be released later this year
3) This proposal is not suggesting abandoning the main binary. It’s more like a different interpretation mode that would be included with PHP. Everything could still work the same” William Earnhardt

Caldera Joins Ninja Forms

“That is one partnership that I feel warm in my soul about,” Bridget says. Caldera will continue to be developer-focused and Ninja Forms will stay customer-facing.

This isn’t a case where a company is being sold for parts like a WordPress junkyard.

Josh Pollock, who co-founded CalderaWP in 2015 with Christie Chirinos, will be joining Saturday Drive as VP of Engineer Experience, along with three other employees from the company, bringing Saturday Drive’s total crew number to 25. Chirinos began working as a product manager at Liquid Webearlier this year.” Sarah Gooding

Automattic Buys Tumblr

Bridget thinks Automattic is buying users so they can sell out. She is hoping after the sale of Automattic, Matt Mullenweg will focus on the WordPress Project. This eliminates the c. Maybe Automattic needed the carried loss for their taxes. But she isn’t a tax lawyer and doesn’t play one on TV.

“There’s a way to make sure [the] userbase goes up.” Jason Tucker

How about the articles saying “WordPress Owner?

This was a bit controversial. And it’s a real issue with who owns the trademark versus who owns the software.

Will Automattic’s Tumblr Still Allow Porn?

What about the “adult content” on WordPress? Also, what is porn? Did the LBGTQ community need this space from a psychological standpoint? WordPress is a culture of inclusion. This might be super good.

“When you’re talking about sexuality, some people consider that porn.” Bridget Willard

Will Gutenberg end up on Tumblr?

According to my friend “Ben” (whose name is actually Daniel Olsen) who spoke about JAM Stack at WCMTL, Gutenberg is a layer that you can put on any CMS.

“Gutenberg on Tumblr would kill Medium. So this is like a win-win-win for Automattic.” Bridget Willard

Short Codes and Block Editors

Dealing with short codes in a block editor world when using a page builder.

Ben Meredith with Better Click to Tweet talked about some of his frustrations on Twitter.

Proposal to Auto Update Old WP Versions to 4.7

“Apply security updates to the latest 6 versions, and auto-update insecure sites to the oldest secure version.” Ian Dunn

Update since airing:

Bridget attended the Core chat about this subject that was held 19 Aug 19. She compiled data from to show that over two million sites would be affected or about 8% of WordPress sites.

As an aside, WPBuffs responded to Bridget’s Instagram Post offering 10% of their services.

Tool or Tip of the Week

This Tool or Tip of the week is brought to you by Kinsta. If you are you tired of unreliable or slow hosting check out, who takes managed WordPress hosting to the next level. Powered by Google Cloud, all their plans include PHP 7.3, SSH access for developers, one-click staging area, 20 global data centers, free SSL, free CDN and 24×7 expert support who will also migrate your site free of charge.

This week Bridget and Jason are both thinking about task management and people management.

Jason likes for relationship management.

Bridget’s into as way to track business development communication.

Do you have any tools or tips we should know about?

We’d love to hear from you. What are your experiences with this subject?

Tell us in the comments below.

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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker: 00:00:00 Wpwatercooler’s WPblab, episode number 131 WPblab is made possible this week by our sponsors, ServerPress and Kinsta. Serverpress are makers of DesktopServer, they make local WordPress development easy. Check them out over So Bridget, let’s, let’s introduce ourselves really quick and I think when we do this, let’s not introduce ourselves as if everyone knows who we are, but let’s, let’s, let’s introduce ourselves, you know, like properly, like let’s really, let’s really tell somebody about us and how they can get ahold of us and that sort of thing. Go for it, Bridget. Oh, you’ve been like, thanks for watching our show for the last like 500 years. I appreciate it. We’re all friends now, whatever. And then you just kind of go off and do your thing.

Bridget Willard: 00:00:48 Hey, my name is Bridget Willard. You can find me I’m a social media marketer specializes with WordPress services and products and I do consulting and management management of your accounts and training for your team. If one thing you should know about me is I enjoy changing my hair color and style frequently. So it’s impossible for Jason to keep up with me and let us use this And I started construction. My student debt is for teaching and I have an emphasis of psychology. So all of that combines to make me the marketing mastermind that I am. I enjoy it very much. I love teaching. It’s my favorite thing. If I could teach clients all day, let y’all do your own work. That’s what I would do. But you know, sometimes good outsource. That’s me. Okay.

Jason Tucker: 00:01:44 Awesome. I’m Jason Tucker. You can find me over at @JasonTucker on Twitter. My website is I do this show and I also do another show called WPwatercooler, which is kind of the name of the network that we do here and a WPwatercooler. We record those on Fridays in the morning, a 11:00 AM Pacific. Feel free to go take a look at that. We also make these shows available as a podcast as well as a audio and video and all that fun stuff. And so ran right down here, right down here, subscribe to our stuff. We’re available on everything. We’re available, we’re available on all sorts of stuff. So if any of the podcasting sites, you can definitely go take a look at us over there. We also stream on YouTube like you’re probably watching right now and you know, Twitch and all sorts of places.

Jason Tucker: 00:02:32 So feel free to go take a look at that way. We’d really appreciate it. And you know, it was funny, Bridget, is while we were doing the whole intro, I totally didn’t actually show up like the kids to add that I spent like, you know, good couple minutes actually doing here. So there’s Kinsta so to take a look at them and then ServerPress as well. There’s ServerPress. I know we didn’t have, we have new toys and now I want to play with all of them. Ah, alright Bridget. So to today’s, today’s we wanted to discuss How do we kind of, how do we even begin with this?

Bridget Willard: 00:03:04 Oh, generally where a marketing topic, topical show as opposed to WPwatercooler, which is news, but there’s so much going on that really needs to be talked about in depth. So I asked Jason after your last have kind of a one on one while they’re cooler for WPblab.

Jason Tucker: 00:03:24 in the title you came up with was “the state of WordPress ecosystem the summer summer” update. Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:03:32 Yeah. I, you know, I’m always going to talk about the strategic implications of WordPress business and brand new wise. Right. That’s never going to not be or the subject. But yeah, I mean Jeff Chandler’s leaving WP tab has left WP Tavern. He wrote about it on his blog and he said it’s been a long time coming. So I’ll be surprised is no longer a contributing writer.

Bridget Willard: 00:04:02 You can listen to a interview with BobWP on his, you can see this blog post on his website, is the first post that there or if you’re seeing this a year from now, it’s not relevant cause you, so we’re trying to make these shows evergreen anyway. Poor Jeff. I mean not poor Jeff, but like he’s such a sweet guy and he’s such a, it has, I mean whatever you think of the Tavern and WP drama, which I hate that term. You know what? I hate the term drama, Jason. It implies that it’s not true. I think that it’s, it’s demeaning and dismissing to some people’s actual legitimate concerns. So that’s why I hate WP drama. I don’t, I have friends go, I don’t do drama and I’m like, you make the drama. And the way Jeff is, Jeff is a great writer and he’s had such a huge influence in thought leadership and in the WordPress ecosystem reporting on, you know, back positions, mergers, features and the comments is where people have a lively discussion and he is moving onto better and brighter things.

Bridget Willard: 00:05:20 He has not announced with those are yet, but I just stick, it would be really interesting. Now, the Sarah Gooding isn’t a good writer and I have no idea who’s gonna take over that editorial voice of the WP Tavern, which is featured in your news box in the dashboard. So it’ll be really interesting to see, cause I used to be in the marketing team and so we always wanted to be in that news box for the make WordPress marketing team. So it’d be interesting to see who’s chosen to be the Editorial, you know, to have editorial, no kind of discretion. And who else is gonna write for Tavern? What kind of topics have is going to stay the same, you know, Tavern was his baby and when now it’s, it’s, it’s grown open. It doesn’t need him anymore. It’s going off to college and he’s an empty nester.

Bridget Willard: 00:06:17 What I mean, I think it’s so funny because not funny, but it’s interesting because WordPress is what, 15 years old now? Or did we already do it?

Jason Tucker: 00:06:25 16 and I, okay. Pretty close.

Bridget Willard: 00:06:27 I think it might be 16 I’m losing track either way. This ecosystem is maturing to the point where even in the pre show we were saying, well, maybe we’re captured. It’s not the best thing we didn’t have at camp Montreal, which I just returned from. And there’s a lot this changing. So anyway, I, I really appreciate Jeff and I’ve met him in person was at WordCamp Chicago and I really enjoy chatting with them. So really good person and he’s going to be missed as far as that editorial voice goes.

Jason Tucker: 00:07:06 Yeah, I agree. I agree. It’s a, you know, when, when you have a, when you have a publication like that, that is it kind of where it’s w it’s the voice of, of WordPress and especially when it’s so close, like so, so close to the edge of, you know, being almost like embedded in that, in that ecosystem. I mean, not just like how we are, but like so deep, so, so close to, you know, the actual source of things. You know, that’s hard to recreate. I mean, you, you can’t get somebody that’s just like somebody that works for the company and be like, Hey, come on in and you know, and tell us all about the things that are happening like that, that’s just not gonna happen, you know? So that’s, yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough one. And it’s going to be, it’s going to be a hard thing to recreate.

Jason Tucker: 00:07:58 And for him, especially if he’s, if he’s the kind of person that really, you know, really thrived off of that type of that type of ability of being able to pull that information and work with it. I know that even during the interview that he was, that he was doing with Bob is that, you know, it’s one thing to just do hot takes. And that’s what like watercooler’s for, we do a hot takes all day long, but hot takes also mean literally. None of it is vetted. None of it is, is sourced properly. Everything is just whatever we see, we say that’s, that’s it. I mean it’s, but we’re not seeing it in a, we’re not, we’re not doing like, you know you know, like a, a controversial new show or anything like that, but just it, what his, what his thing was with that, and I kind of really hit home for me is the fact that to be able to, to be able to report on a thing requires you to go so far into the research to make sure that things are working right. By the time you’ve done all that or are you reporting or not? And everyone else has just meta reporting off of the things that you already wrote. Well, it’s tough.

Bridget Willard: 00:09:08 It’s editorials and editorial. That means it has opinion. Journalism, tries to have both sides. And so that’s tricky. I mean, for that, to talk about this a little bit deeper, we probably should have Jen Miller on the show who are covert. Our producer, producer Jen, we miss you. She was, she was a journalist. And you do, you have to know the who, what, when, where, why. And I would I know that you think there’s this hot chicks and that and that some of the watercooler’s, a little kitschy but doesn’t mean it’s not true. I know most of the volunteer work, we are the source. We are, we are the deep throat so we know what’s going on and it water gate cause we were there in that hotel room that’s up. Thats the difference with OpenSource and other kind of like, we don’t know how much Yahoo sold, you know, Tumblr for less. Verizon tells us w Verizon’s not telling us how much Automattic, but I’m going ahead. Let’s keep, we actually tried to organize this time. They have a list. So Jason wants to talk about the IT side of Jeff leaving.

Jason Tucker: 00:10:29 Yeah, I was reading a couple of Jeff’s tweets and you know, he, he was talking about, you know, the simple fact that it’s, that it’s hard for, it’s hard for somebody who’s been doing that type of work for so long that, you know, all your stuff is tied up and in it, it’s like you never thought in a million years like, “Oh, I’m never going to have to go in and rewrite this. I’m never going to have to go in and change whatever.” And sure enough, you know, especially in this, you know, in this particular tweet he was saying “migrating a one person 10 year old site to someone else is not as easy as it could be. Lots of emails and password changes.” And so for S, you know, for an it person like myself where I have to do this all the time service accounts, service accounts, service accounts, and make sure everything’s tied to the domain that you’re interacting with and just you have to do with all those sorts of things and just make it so it’s not attached to your personal email.

Bridget Willard: 00:11:24 Okay. So service accounts. Can you tell that? So of our audience?

Jason Tucker: 00:11:31 Yeah. Yeah. So a service account to me is like it’s an email address that that is, it’s not attached to a name. So it could be like [email protected] or it could be, you know [email protected] or whatever the term service account just means it’s a reusable account. That’s something that’s easy to be passed. Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:11:54 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:11:55 So that makes it hard, cause that means you’re logging in and out of different accounts and all those things. But in reality, it just means that down the road when somebody else inherits your thing, that you don’t have to worry about it. And you know, it’s, it’s one thing to say this now, you know, like for instance, WPwatercooler, all this stuff is tied to Jason’s account on WPwatercooler, but it’s on his account.

Bridget Willard: 00:12:19 Yeah.

Jason Tucker: 00:12:19 It’s not that hard to get rid of it, but if it was his own personal account and it’s like, I’m not giving you my password. Okay. That’s where things get a little bit more difficult.

Bridget Willard: 00:12:27 Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. Good hire. Good it person. Hi Eric, could I, well, I mean, and maybe if you’re building a thing from scratch right now, you’re probably going to sell it or leave or whatever. I mean, it’s fine. So thanks Jeff for the last 10 years being thank you and okay.

Jason Tucker: 00:12:52 In all the podcasts that he’s been doing,

Bridget Willard: 00:12:55 some of those WordPress weekly, he’s, I think he’s still doing that.

Jason Tucker: 00:13:02 I don’t believe so.

Jason Tucker: 00:13:02 Yeah. That I’m not sure about. Jeff is no longer a writer at Tavern. I kind of wish that I now I’m like, well, who’s gonna do the real like serious and who’s gonna do the non, here’s a controversial part, who’s gonna do the non tie to automattic or Audrey Capitol investigative reporting on all things WordPress. We need to know about the “The Gutes”.

Bridget Willard: 00:13:37 Yeah. It’s tough. Yeah. Looking for a few good men. You want to do some journalism? We’ll let you publish them. That’d be Right, right. So the next subject is my trip to Montreal. Oh yeah. How was that? #BonjourHi. I got to finally meet Michel Bluma in person. And it’s just so cool. It’s, it is completely bilingual. Did you have pizza with pineapple on it? No, but it was just, okay. I will say that it was the best after-party I’ve ever been to. And here’s why it is a big location, but not too big. There wasn’t blaring music, but they did have music cause it wasn’t a bar. It was our place. So you know how Orange County, we’ve go to Durty Nellie’s we don’t buy it out. Right. And you’re like all of us going to Hennessy’s it’s not the same. So it was just us and they had really good food.

Bridget Willard: 00:14:42 The people who are serving were really nice. There was a plenty of area around the bar so that you could get your drink whatever. You know, your drink ticket. I got a red wine because when in Montreal I mean it’s pretty French. There was a song lyric. I was listening to what Jason Lemieux cause I went there with Jason Lemieux, let me your PostMatic and the, the guy wrote, she went to Montreal to be closer to France. But yeah, and so anyway, I know there was a backyard area with like those really big bulb lights and Round Back chairs. It was such a cool, it was such a collaborative part. It was not too crowded. There’s plenty of places to sit. Very good, very well organized for a bind. So in Southern California, we like to say that we have a lot of languages, but we’re not really that bilingual.

Bridget Willard: 00:15:36 You’re either Spanish or you’re speaking English or if you’re in some parts you’re speaking, you know, Chinese, Japanese, Mong, Vietnamese, Korean, Farsi, Arabic. But there’s no whole lot of bilingualism in California with all in California. Oh. With all of our languages, we’re not integrated at all. So it was really interesting for me, and I’ve been to some places, you know, not, I’m a world traveler, I’ve been outside of our borders couple times now. And I was, I was so fascinated that you would see all you had to do is start with “Bonjour” and then would say, “Hey, how’s it going?” Like whatever. They’re just Canadians to speak French. So everybody was super friendly of the Metro is really fascinating. It’s clean, the tunnels don’t smell. The actual WordCamp itself was really great because they had two tracks in French and one track in English.

Jason Tucker: 00:16:50 Oh wow.

Bridget Willard: 00:16:51 And they, and they did the opening remarks and French and English. It was great. It was so cool. I went into the end of one of the talks just to see what it was like. And you’re here. “Hello? Hello. Ah, asset F all over. LA LA LA LA LA LA custom post types”. You know, because like they didn’t, you know, they didn’t, they honored both cultures and that was C and WordPress. I mean we, not that one. I’m not saying we don’t see it, but I don’t see it a lot. I mean, even when I went to the WordCamp and Nijmegen, it was I think solid English. Yap. Europe’s in English. Yeah. I look, I’m fine with English. Just so the universal tech language, that’s a language of ER know air for air control towers. I mean, it’s fine. Okay. But it’s really cool to see how people are, you know, and they’re all language and Kinsta.

Bridget Willard: 00:18:01 This week’s tool, the tip sponsor told you of the week sponsor credited their book that Brian Lee Jackson wrote on how to optimize your website in both English and French.

Jason Tucker: 00:18:16 Oh, that’s cool.

Bridget Willard: 00:18:18 I thought that was really awesome. That is really enjoyed it. And no t-shirt, just a coffee cup. And I just, you know, there was a tweet or something, there was some discussion somewhere about WordCamp swag and whether or not we could just donate to a nonprofit instead. Oh yeah. Plus, you know, I guess it’s a logistical thing lately. We can’t do it. A WP Campus did that this year. I thought that was really interesting. Like in lieu of swag, they were donating to a charity. Yeah. That’s cool. And so, but T shirt sizes are such a pain. I had a friend emailing me cause of my GitHub repo, she tried to see if there’s four X soft shirts and I’m like, I don’t think those exist on the planet.

Bridget Willard: 00:19:13 Like once you have X’s, then you get the worst fabric that was ever created. And that it does feel not as cool. But also I just donated five bags to Goodwill today and I’m pretty sure there’s gonna be some people where I work camp shirts in orange County. Not all of them. I just kept my favorites, you know, but Montreal was worth going to. I’ve been wanting to go for a long, long time. I tried some things. I never had a ironically is Asian food. I mean not ironically. No, I did go a really cool French sandwich place. Oh my gosh. You got to go to Canada while the Canadian dollars down either $12 sandwich, Canadian $12 Canadian. It was like eight bucks.

Jason Tucker: 00:20:07 Wow, that’s awesome.

Bridget Willard: 00:20:09 It was super awesome. And then a, anyway I had hand, hand toss or handmade noodles. It’s a bowl. You have to eat it with chopsticks. You have a super good, although if you do that don’t wear like an orange shirt cause you’re going to get that chili sauce on you even if you’re careful like me. And then we went to Korean barbecue or the food was good but you know the person was was like, Oh my gosh, I have to have Asian food. Cause he lives in a tiny, tiny town in Vermont with maybe a thousand people.

Jason Tucker: 00:20:43 Crazy.

Bridget Willard: 00:20:45 I’ll tell you what’s crazy. The capital of Vermont can be walked in less than 20 minutes.

Jason Tucker: 00:20:51 Wow.

Bridget Willard: 00:20:53 Opoly air Mott player. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, that’s backcountry all on Vermont. It was really great week. I highly encourage everybody to take a week somewhere if you can or you know, a few days and get out of your routine. I’m telling you I, I slept well. I’ve got more work done. I was more effective. I hate that we’re busy like productive. Like we’re social worker bees flying on, just throwing up, making honey. That’s not harsh but I have so much clarity because I was in another environment and that was really good. I don’t really want to go there with snows. Okay. So, so PHP is our text. Here’s our next topic. And there was a blog on PHPstorm. I saw this blog post cause I have a client who works in Magento and there’s this whole like issue with P++ and from the jetbrain’s PHPstorm blog.

Bridget Willard: 00:22:08 A, I’ll just quote really quick. A P plus plus a controversy and accusations and PHP internals over the removal of short tags and other discussions eventually resulted in an unexpected proposal from Z. [inaudible] Create a new PHP dialect. The working name P plus plus is not accidental here as you suggest creating a sister language like C plus plus for C, PHP and P plus plus are supposed to be developed side by side within a single runtime and the new P plus. Plus, it’ll be impossible to implement a lot of revolutionary improvements to appreciate legacy and clear things up without thinking about backward compatibility. Since language have a new branding, it will not have a bad reputation. A quote unquote classic PHP would get all the reforms and no other syntax features would be but and other non syntax features. But we remade backward compatibility, maintain backward compatibility.

Bridget Willard: 00:23:14 So there’s internal issues with the PHP people. And I, I was like rooting that and I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is like weird.

Jason Tucker: 00:23:25 But it’s a, it’s a programming language.

Bridget Willard: 00:23:27 Here’s the thing, Jason. So there’s two words that stuck out to me. Backward compatibility is back word. Okay. There is no such word as backwards. You’re going backward. I can’t even, I thought everybody was just saying it wrong and now I see it printed raw, backward compatible.

Jason Tucker: 00:23:46 If we don’t, if we all do it at some point they’ll just edit to the dictionary and then we’re all correct.

Bridget Willard: 00:23:50 That’s true. I mean the Oxford dictionary is pretty lenient lately, but backward compatibility is a core mission to WordPress and WordPress. [inaudible] And PHP. Yup. So if P.

Jason Tucker: 00:24:11 well we’re getting more and more JavaScript is getting thrown in there like crazy.

Bridget Willard: 00:24:16 So either way you still have to have the language that speaks to the database.

Jason Tucker: 00:24:22 That’s true.

Bridget Willard: 00:24:22 So there’s MySQL and there’s something and there’s JavaScript. Javascript is all in the browser anyway. So what’s in the middle?

Bridget Willard: 00:24:33 Plus we go P plus plus or whatever. Then there’s going to be another, a fork in the road. You know, as Robert said, two Rose diversion, a yellow wood and being one traveler long, I stood and looked down one as far as like, you know, like there’s going to be, I know that everybody like fork, I mean literally a fork. So I used to say, and everybody was mad at me that WordPress 5 created a fork with plugins and themes unintentionally. But it did because the plugin developers have three choices. Number one, they support 5.0 number two, they support 4.9 and below. Or number three, they support all of them. So if you’re doing a Gutenberg 5.0 and the new WordPress editor, that’s not the same as 4.9 and behind. So you’re doing one both or the other. And that’s when we saw studio press get purchased by WP Engine, I think by like as web, right?

Bridget Willard: 00:25:53 She got big companies. All of a sudden you have Coke. Compatibility issues was hundreds and hundreds of thousands of themes. So I posted the article and the core WordPress Slack, of course nobody wrote me back or at least it intact. But I mean, I think we should be aware of it either way. PHP is trying to be cool again or still realize you have a lot of developers like I don’t even like PHB. I like Laravel. I mean the big talk in Montreal was Laravel. People are really into it. They’re excited about it, you know? So if we want to keep, this is always a debate in WordPress, right? Do we want to keep, are really good developers or keep our users backward. Compatibility, super cool. Developers. Now I’m like Laravel, whatever language you want. But if it’s so easy for you to develop a WordPress to turn those out and let that be your money maker, definitely terrible.

Jason Tucker: 00:27:02 That’s the thing is Laravel is PHP. You know it it that, that just like jQuery, you know, it doesn’t really matter.

Bridget Willard: 00:27:14 So the P H P P plus plus situation, no matter what happens with those people, it’s going to affect everybody. But Shanto right? [inaudible] On PHP. It’s a big deal on the open soar CMS world. It’d be worth having a show. Just, I would love to watch a lot of cooler episodes with your devs talking about that, that that’s a topic request for me anyway. That’s all I want to do is to mention it. And then a caldera forms, jars, Ninja forms, positions and acquisitions. Oh my, I know. That’s crazy. Good for them. I love them all. And it’s like, it’s such a, it’s [inaudible] at first you’re like, wait, what? No Caldera Forms is very developer and it’s gonna stay that way. No, Josh can work there full time doing his thing. Christie Chirinos knows, helped make that also. She’s, she’s super smart marketing business strategist. I mean, when I say super smart, I mean literally a genius prodigy with a bachelor’s degree and economics. Okay. So like she’s crazy smart.

Bridget Willard: 00:28:43 So like they, they did a good thing, you know. Now Ninja forms is going to stay user focused and Ninja farm’s just gonna remain developer focused and now they’re men. They are a fully distributed team. Yeah. Where they weren’t before because same flaws. One of my very good friends was a total, he was one of the last, yeah. It’s very difficult to keep company culture when you grow either whether it’s distributed or not. Because culture’s true. There’s always going to be subgroups. So I, I’m just, that is one partnership that I feel or my soul about. I cannot feel this cannibalistic.

Jason Tucker: 00:29:36 Right, right. No, it’s true there though. There’s, there’s been many acquisitions. I’m not even in the WordPress space, but just in general that it just like, wow, really? [inaudible] Okay. So at what point does one get cut off from the other? Like, you know, which one gets sold for parts or whatever, and, and that’s not the case here. You know, that’s the totally different thing. And I love it.

Bridget Willard: 00:30:04 Sold for parts. Speaking of that Automattic bought tumblr

Jason Tucker: 00:30:09 Dude. Yeah, that was, whew. That was some interesting stuff that, that, that was some interesting stuff. I mean, I, I personally have never, I never, I don’t know. I mean, I never use tumblr personally. I was the, I was a livejournal person 500 years ago and so LiveJournal was my jam. That’s where I wrote all my blog posts and all my stuff. Cause that the blog posts and all that stuff didn’t exist yet. And so it was just like, that’s where I wrote all my stuff was on, on live journal. And so for tumblr tumblr it was more about like sharing means and sharing crazy stuff and just being, yeah, just being totally wild out. So yeah, that, that’s, that’s an interesting one. And there’s been a lot of, there’s been a lot of stuff with with tumblr and pornography and tumblr and kiddy porn and just all of this just really toxic type stuff that’s happening there. And you know, the second that that was, you know, posted about and Twitter and Facebook and all this stuff, people were just like, Oh, so now they own like the world’s largest collection of porn or whatever.

Bridget Willard: 00:31:21 Okay. Okay.

Jason Tucker: 00:31:22 First of all, what PornHub was thinking about buying it?

Bridget Willard: 00:31:26 Well, PornHub should’ve bought it.

Jason Tucker: 00:31:28 Okay.

Bridget Willard: 00:31:31 Well here’s the thing. Okay. First I’m going to tell you why I think it happened and then I’ll get back to that porn thing. Okay. Number one.

Bridget Willard: 00:31:43 I didn’t want to [inaudible] much time cause we got to get to Tool or Tip the week, but I’ll just quickly number one, C corporations by corporations that are dying for the last carryover to tax write up number two, gets more users. Number three because of the users a and be sold Automattic while we sold Matt Mullenweg can step down as CEO and run the WordPress project without any conflict of interest and properly. Finally, huh? That is what I’m hoping will happen. That’s my official prediction that I gave to Jason when I was in Vermont, but what I read about tumblr, which is interesting because WordPress has a culture of inclusion right now we support LBG. All right, dang these teeth. This is the problem with new all these new bridges. I’m having a hard time and Nancy. Yup. LB G Q. After when I was a kid it was just LBGT. I’m missing an acronym and I apologize, but yup. There’s a lot of, a lot of people in the trans community, the T use Tumblr as a way to express themselves because they weren’t allowed to elsewhere.

Jason Tucker: 00:33:12 Hmm.

Bridget Willard: 00:33:13 And then it became a porn thing. But when you, you’re talking about sexuality.

Jason Tucker: 00:33:20 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:33:21 Some people consider some of that porn right now, w you and I and the law of the United States of America draw that line, that minors, and we call pedophilia. So that’s legally enforceable. Whatever your ethics are, I’m gonna just go out, ball’s out, say, I think it’s wrong, but it’s also illegal. So that can be dealt with, but the FBI and everything like that. But the fact that WordPress is taking a place that used to be safe for the trans community, maybe allowing it to be safe again. I think it’s a good thing.

Jason Tucker: 00:34:04 Hmm.

Bridget Willard: 00:34:06 Can you imagine like I have some friends who went through that.

Jason Tucker: 00:34:12 Will Gutenberg end up on that?

Bridget Willard: 00:34:14 Okay. According to my friends that I talked to this weekend is,

Jason Tucker: 00:34:20 is what I hear in my community is called the little, a little birdie spoke to you.

Bridget Willard: 00:34:24 a little glorious name was Ben, not Ben Meredith, but his, he, he said that Gutenberg is just a layer on top of WordPress. You could put it on anything put on Joomla. So if, if it’s just a layer because it’s written in a react, then you can put a layer over over tumblr, which goes to the, my main point of why they bought it, which is users. That’s why Jetpack has been super aggressive. So the whole theory of act now ask for forgiveness later is what Jetpack has been doing very aggressively last couple of years, actually the last year but especially the last couple of years.

Bridget Willard: 00:35:11 But especially this year. And I’m telling you, this is what happens when you have venture capital. People want to return. That’s why they let you borrow their money so that they could get it back with some extra. I have a friend who was my loan shark. I said, you want to be my little shark? Sure. I need $200 for a week. I’ll give you 225. He goes, that sounds like a good deal. I’m like, right. That’s venture capital. They want their money and they’re going to break your knees if you don’t get it. I mean that’s the mafia. But I mean,

Jason Tucker: 00:35:43 So I want to show a, a comment real quick cause you know I have new toys I want to hit play.

Bridget Willard: 00:35:50 That is awesome. Yes. Michelle, why is the st Gutenberg and make totally sense on Tumblr? Gutenberg on Tumblr would kill medium. Yeah. And that’s who they’ve always been after anyway. So this is like a win, win, win for Automattic. A write off for carry over a loss users Gutenberg on Tumblr. So is there, they’re going to stay separate, at least for now. But if they’re using Gutenberg, then there’s still users, right? Where’s mean money? My name means

Jason Tucker: 00:36:27 I’m will and will the logins of, of of tumblr in WordPress end up mixing together where you’re essentially using your WordPress ID as your way of logging in. You know, at some point you always see these companies where they’ll acquire one another and then one goes and wins the war over who’s going to be the one that does the authentication method. And so if that’s the case, then that means you have all these people that are using a tumblr who also have Gravatars, who also have like all sorts of things. Like it just, it just blows up. You end up with just all sorts of this like cohesion that happens, you know, quickly, not easily, but quickly, you know, and now everyone who has a tumblr account could at some point also end up with a account and now you can build your websites off of it and use the same, it’s like there’s a, there’s a way of making sure that those user, that user base just goes straight up the, you know, through the roof. Yep.

Bridget Willard: 00:37:30 So we have one more talk at topic before

Bridget Willard: 00:37:36 For the the Tool or Tip of the Week. Yeah. Short codes.

Bridget Willard: 00:37:41 Hello. Block Editor Ben. Then Meredith was trying to help as one of his better click to tweet customers who is using Devi, I believe.

Jason Tucker: 00:37:53 [Inaudible] Yeah. You of have this like kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because you have, you have, you know, the old school editor that that’s being used, the classic editor if you will. And then you have the block editor, which is Gutenberg. And then you have something that’s a page builder, could be Divi, could be whatever. And now you have a place there that you’re trying to, you know, click, click on you know, click inside a tiny MCE and be able to have it generate a short code for you. And that doesn’t exist anymore. So it’s like you have to almost, you have to turn on classic editor in order to be able to start, you know, using that. So yeah. That’s an interesting one. I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to navigate that other than from what everyone was saying.

Jason Tucker: 00:38:43 And you know, in the in like the, the Twitter, the Twitter threads yeah. Is, is that you have to install classic editor at that point and use and build the, have that available and be able to use that. Or like I was saying, you have to remember a short code and the 500 parameters that might be associated with that short code. And that stinks. Cause if you’re somebody who always just clicks on the button to say, you know, you know better quick click, the better click to tweet. Then it’s like ah, okay now I have to like type this in every single time. That’s super annoying. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s tough and right.

Bridget Willard: 00:39:21 I mean I guess to make his plugin a Gutenberg block, this is what I was saying, you either keep it the way it was, which is the work of based Oh 0.9 and down. Or you make a Gutenberg or block and your 5.01 up. This is what I’ve been saying for three years.

Jason Tucker: 00:39:42 Yeah, yeah, I know. But it’s like here’s whatever. I mean like Ben feels that he, Ben knows he does not want to go and have to write a thing for Divi. A thing for every single different, you know, page builder that’s out there. It’d be cool if he did

Bridget Willard: 00:39:59 No, all that you do that. I wouldn’t do that. But I’d tell him to do that, but that’s the problem is that not communicating that the fork actually exists. We’re pretending like WordPress is still WordPress, but all of a sudden things aren’t working well because they’re not. You know, and then you know we’re not.

Jason Tucker: 00:40:19 You have some assumptions that are in there. They just get you stuck.

Bridget Willard: 00:40:22 Short codes are tricky man. Short codes. It’s tricky, but I will have a suggestion if you are tired of unreliable or slow hosting, check out that takes managed WordPress hosting to the next level powered by Google cloud. Other plans include PHP 7.3 SSH. Access for developers, one click staging area, 20 global data centers, free SSL, three CDN and 24 seven expert support. Who will also migrate your site for your charge. Find out more at, Tool or Tip of the Week.

Jason Tucker: 00:41:09 Whew. I don’t have any cool graphics or tours of the week, but somebody wants to make you some graphics for cool tour tip of the week. I’d be more than happy to throw the ball up on the screen and I’ll make sure even say your name every once in a while too. Tool or tip of the week. Oh man.

Bridget Willard: 00:41:24 So all of us, as I said, I was working and I was doing some serious marketing meetings with Jason Lemieux for PostMatic and we set up a [inaudible], we decided to re resurrect his basecamp. Okay. But we had these partnership conversations that he didn’t feel were best track there and most excited about a Google sheet. So we’re using Airtable,

Jason Tucker: 00:41:53 Airtable. Oh, awesome.

Bridget Willard: 00:41:57 Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty interesting. I like it on my phone. I liked that you can ha, you know, call like, Oh you can make a category. It’s basically looks like a spreadsheet, but it has database functionality.

Bridget Willard: 00:42:14 Like there’s just some cool stuff you can do with this. I know, it’s so funny. I’m like, why don’t we just use Trello? No, I don’t like that. Like he doesn’t like the Kanban style or Kanban or however you say it and that’s fine. So, but you can sort it, you can filter it, you can make notes,

Jason Tucker: 00:42:29 it has an API.

Bridget Willard: 00:42:31 Yeah. Well I dunno about the API stuff, but for me I can write in the notes. Oh yeah, I talked to so and so on this date. And what was the last contract? So it’s like CRM ish enough, the things that we want to manage. So if I were doing collections again, I have done collections for WordPress agencies that charge 25%. Cause that’s where I started in my life. But anyway, like I would use that. I like that as I always just did an Excel sheet or Google sheets now. But I like the last contacted date cause when I email or call up I’m like, Oh that’s interesting because when I talked to you on August 4th, you said you cut the check. Did you ever mail it?

Jason Tucker: 00:43:23 Do you remember talking to me?

Bridget Willard: 00:43:26 Yeah. So I, I really like, I really like it. I think it’s I think it’s going to be a great tool that maybe I’ll use the summer, my other clients.

Jason Tucker: 00:43:37 That’s cool. No, I, I’ve, I’ve been wanting to play with it. I, I love using automation, especially on my phone. There’s a kid next door that’s screaming his bloody head off. Sorry. It’s probably coming into headphones. Sorry about that

Bridget Willard: 00:43:53 Apartment living

Jason Tucker: 00:43:56 Oh. Yeah. So I, you know, I, I talked about this before with Shortcuts and so shortcuts has a whole bunch of stuff you can do that ties into Airtable. I mean if you want to talk, you know, talk to the person in your phone, the, you know, the, that special person on the phone and say that person’s name and then tell it to add a new row to your table. You can definitely do that if you want it to Bridget, you know? Yeah. I mean trash and all that fun stuff.

Bridget Willard: 00:44:21 But still it’s cool. And I liked the phone app. The phone app looks good because half the time I don’t need to be doing the main notes. I just need to see what’s going on. Oh is it my turn tag? Okay. I’ll call this person and then I call and I make notes on my computer cause I like my, I’ve got a manicure today. I like my fingers like this, you know, I’m never going to not want to use my laptop.

Jason Tucker: 00:44:48 No, my Airtable sounds great. I’m, I don’t, I would definitely take a look at it.

Bridget Willard: 00:44:53 Not super expensive. It’s $10 a user. I mean, yeah, I spent $25 for my WordPress hosting.

Jason Tucker: 00:45:00 So true.

Bridget Willard: 00:45:05 SAAS as the way to go, man.

Jason Tucker: 00:45:06 Oh yeah, yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:45:08 So what SAAS product are you gonna.

Jason Tucker: 00:45:11 right, exactly. So I’ve been I’ve been playing around with, it’s funny you said CRM cause it’s, this is totally the thing that I’ve been looking at. I, you know, I, I’m always hesitant to recommend a thing. So let’s just say I’m not recommending it. I’m, I’m, I’m raising it to the surface.

Bridget Willard: 00:45:31 So feel free to take this as an option, right?

Jason Tucker: 00:45:35 Yeah. we went on our first date and that’s about it. So I’m using, I’m using this tool called CLOZE and it’s spelled C, L O. Z. E. Okay. And And what this app does is it’s a, it’s an app that runs on your phone, on your phone. It’s also if I remember correctly, it has a web interface as well. But it’s, yeah, it has a web interface as well. And so what CLOZE does is it’s like a, it’s like a relationship manager, but it ties into social media. So it tells you like, here’s the last time you interacted with this person, here’s the last time you did this, here’s the last time you did that.

Bridget Willard: 00:46:13 Like it tells you all of those things and it like your tweets, is it? Yeah, like the Twitter. Yeah. I might need that.

Jason Tucker: 00:46:25 Well, I’d be interested in seeing how it would work for somebody like you because for somebody like me who doesn’t talk enough to all these people that are on these social networks, cause you know, my, my job at work is not to do that. So it’s, it makes it really difficult for me to manage it. It’s like 17 bucks a month for it. I’ve been playing around with a, a trial of it. And then I did get the, the first month just to kind of play around with it and see how it works. But yeah, it pulls in a whole bunch of stuff. It pulls in your Gmail, it pulls into Google calendar, it pulls into Slack. So it tells you the next, last time you spoke to somebody and in Slack it Facebook, it even pulls in like your phone calls and stuff that happens through T mobile or AT&T or Verizon, which is super interesting. So it’ll actually tell you whether or not you called those people,

Bridget Willard: 00:47:18 It’s Big Brother.

Jason Tucker: 00:47:19 it is, and that’s one thing that kind of scares me a little bit cause it’s like, like, you know, this is all my contacts on my people that I talked to and the stuff that I do, but man, does this thing tell you like, Hey, you haven’t talked to so-and-so in like three weeks.

Bridget Willard: 00:47:36 Dude this was the exact tool we needed at Give and 2016. Huh?

Bridget Willard: 00:47:45 Really, I guess figure. Yeah, because we did talk to our customers a lot on social media and in our close up Slack channel. Yup.

Jason Tucker: 00:47:57 Yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting, it’s an interesting tool. Like you just tell it like here’s all my, here’s all my Facebook pages, here’s all my Facebook posts and here’s all my Twitter’s and here’s all my Instagrams that not instagram, but here’s all my stuff. And kind of pulls all that stuff in and then says like, Hey, you haven’t talked to this person in the last however many months. Or it tells me, I talked to someone and I’m like, I talked to that person, but apparently I had an interaction with them in some way, shape or form. So there’s a, there’s a bunch of other kind of niceties that are in there. And just the way that it kind of pulls all those pieces in.

Bridget Willard: 00:48:29 So that’ll be fun to try to see. Like if I can break it!

Jason Tucker: 00:48:35 You might break it cause like, you know, I look at the analytics of this thing, like here, let me, I wonder if I can just show this part of it without, yeah, they can probably show this. Let’s see here. Let me try this.

Jason Tucker: 00:48:52 Live TV folks. Live TV. So here’s like the analytics, like here’s your activity and here’s like emails and phone calls and you know, a your time spent. And I don’t have lead qualifiers cause I’m not selling anything. So this, this makes it kind of useless on my side. But it you know, it tells you like your weekend review of like how many people you interacted with over the last seven days.

Bridget Willard: 00:49:20 Does that say nice? 90% of your mail was bulk?

Jason Tucker: 00:49:23 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:49:29 More than you sent?

Jason Tucker: 00:49:31 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:49:32 Yeah. No kidding.

Jason Tucker: 00:49:34 But yeah, it gives you a whole bunch of information in here. It’s, it’s pretty interesting. Yeah. It’s a pretty interesting tool to play with. So there’s, there’s a whole bunch of other things on here I’m totally scared to click on cause I don’t want to show up on the screen. But but it’s, it’s a, it’s a neat looking interface and you should definitely Oh definitely take a look at it and we’ll see how that, how that word work for you. I’ve played with other ones of these, these personal CRM systems and some of them are okay and other ones or they could be better, but it kind of tells you like, Hey, you haven’t talked to this person in a week, you should probably hit them up. Okay. Like we’re starting now. It’s telling me it’s like, Hey, did you know in a 50, two minutes ago you’re supposed to do this WPblab thing and you’re doing this with Bridget cause you’ve tagged her in the thing.

Bridget Willard: 00:50:24 Oh, its just takes it from your Google calendar?

Jason Tucker: 00:50:27 Yeah,

Bridget Willard: 00:50:28 Yeah. Oh that’s awesome.

Jason Tucker: 00:50:31 Yeah. Like it’s showing me an email that happened with with Mary and somebody else or Brian Hogg. It’s like, Hey, do you want to work on this? And have you worked on that? And Twitter interactions. And

Bridget Willard: 00:50:43 So when you’re the Bridget Willard, you’re doing the saying, could you say she has a cat named fluffy and Rose in cancun or something like that? Probably. That’s what I’m wondering. Like, can you store in that so that when you’re on the phone with them, you go, Hey, how’s fluffy?

Jason Tucker: 00:51:01 Oh, I’d imagine so. Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:51:04 That’s a tricky stuff that I keep in my head because I read people’s tweets, but I’m sort of curious like, does that do that? You know how salespeople do that? I this guy was dating and he was call me every certain period of time. Oh boy. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of Bridget there. Yeah. You could relate it as Nick, Jen sitting G. Oh that’s because all the emails I sent real funny.

Jason Tucker: 00:51:35 And with companies in the past set relationships straight, that’s just bullshit. Or than that.

Jason Tucker: 00:51:43 How do you think you rate, you know, you can totally change that if you want. You know,

Bridget Willard: 00:51:47 So funny. That is so funny.

Jason Tucker: 00:51:50 But it’ll show you like social media interactions and it’ll show you a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, it’s really neat.

Bridget Willard: 00:51:56 What is the to do is what are the two dues? Is that holding from your calendar?

Jason Tucker: 00:52:02 Yeah, I think so.

Bridget Willard: 00:52:04 That’s so cool.

Jason Tucker: 00:52:05 Yeah, it’s funny.

Bridget Willard: 00:52:06 I don’t really know if I like the black, but I don’t like that.

Jason Tucker: 00:52:10 I think, I think there’s a, I think there’s a night mode you can turn on and off.

Bridget Willard: 00:52:13 Yeah. Cause black white text was black reminds you of Dreamweaver from night from 1999 other than that, like that’s, yeah, I think there’s a black mode I just have turned on right now. Yeah, I know you coders. You liked the black.

Jason Tucker: 00:52:28 Yeah. I don’t want to make my whole room all light up. All right. Long term work.

Bridget Willard: 00:52:36 Well we managed to get in all the news we can remember.

Jason Tucker: 00:52:42 Yeah and [inaudible] and I want to call it I to, I want to make sure that we’re perfectly clear here. Like this show is not going to be the news show. We are not doing a news program. But if we’re doing that like yeah, no I this the amount of work that you’d have to go through in order to figure out, I mean Jeff will tell you the amount of work that you have to go through in order to be able to pull off that sort of thing is really difficult. And I’d much rather just come on here and talk about some fun stuff that’s going on, but we didn’t have much going on. So it was like Bridget’s has been traveling like crazy and we just need to be able to have some time. I’ve been really busy at work, literally building a building. So there’s just a lot of stuff that’s been going on.

Jason Tucker: 00:53:21 So it was cool to just kind of come on and try something totally different and kind of use a whole new system to see how it works. So whatever you’re watching this on or or anything like that what, I’d love to hear you hear from you in the, you know, in the comments in the chat, in the whatever is tell us how this worked for you. Was, did the system look okay? Did things work well? Was it well received? Were you able to watch it on Twitter where you’re able to watch it on, you know, all the different places? And if so, then cool. Cause this is my, this might be the, the new system that I use to kind of do these shows and so far so good.

Bridget Willard: 00:53:56 Yeah.

Jason Tucker: 00:53:57 And I’m not telling you what the name of it is been until I actually configure out. If I want to use it or not, because again, we’re just dating right now and I’m not so sure. You know. [inaudible]

Bridget Willard: 00:54:07 My, my tweet, my boyfriend’s a Bitmoji, super sweet on him so he doesn’t want to come out yet. Here’s the thing, like overall the relationship of these stores and why I think this would be a good topic. Thanks for shell. She said it looks good on YouTube, is that there are huge changes in WordPress right now because we are curing as people who use and contribute and have products in WordPress, right? So we’re getting older, we’re getting married, we as a demographic, we’re having kids, we’re moving or changing jobs. And so that kind of thing affects, and then, and then as the software gets developed, the technology changes and we’re in react and we’re in P plus plus that next year. I mean, look, Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. You know what, I’ve got to talk about the one that really, really pissed me off. I had a rant, there is like 2 million sites. Okay. That are going to be possibly Broken. Okay. okay. I cannot believe I forgot this. So there, there is a proposal From Core. Okay. And in this proposal there is going to be everybody’s getting, you know, upgraded or something like that. Okay. Right.

Jason Tucker: 00:55:57 Forced upgrade,

Bridget Willard: 00:55:58 the forced upgrade from 3.7 to 4.6. Okay. So there was this tweet by Morton and, and John James this like, you know, I’ve added my thoughts to this saying, okay, so people were like, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So I thought, well, I’ll just go to builtwith, cause I about this because my friend Jason Tucker, and I’ll just go find out how many sites are in that range. Is it 30,000? What is it? How many users are we talking about? And the answer is 1.9 million. If you round it up, it’s 2 million. 2 million sites.

Jason Tucker: 00:56:48 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:56:49 And the question is, is that an acceptable attrition? And some people would say, well, they’re abandoned. And I’m like, they say they’re active. So what do you qualify as abandoned now? Right. WordPress, as we talked about in the beginning, especially when we talked about PHP 7.5 or P plus plus or whatever it’s going to be, has a commitment to backward compatibility and they’ve already been the gray area with WordPress five and now they’re, they’re saying, well obviously we already recommend PHP 7.2.

Jason Tucker: 00:57:26 Okay,

Bridget Willard: 00:57:27 Okay, so we’ve made that step. We recommend it but we don’t break sites. But if you automatically upgrade everybody to 4.7.

Jason Tucker: 00:57:40 yeah,

Bridget Willard: 00:57:41 there are going to be things to break because [inaudible] themes and their own janky customer code and whatever. Now listen, I’m going to say I’m going to talk about this cause I’ve got one more minute. Thing is when I was at Riggins construction, we use this program and that was based on Not FoxPro, that’s P, that’s PC file server.

Jason Tucker: 00:58:11 FileMaker pro.

Bridget Willard: 00:58:12 Filemaker pro, sorry, file and file maker pro had a breaking change and I think nine or something like that. So the first one we were on was old [inaudible] in the middle of an upgrade and I was managing that, which kept failing. Okay. I was doing the QA for this upgrade that was breaking, breaking, breaking, breaking. So meanwhile we’re stuck in file maker nine or seven or something like that. So I mean because the program related relied them on that it doesn’t really matter what the program was. CMS, nobody knows what it is. Us construction management systems CMIS information system. Anyway, the point is it relied upon a database that broke because it changed how its relational functionality was. What that no, that would not work on, on newer Macs.

Jason Tucker: 00:59:09 Okay.

Bridget Willard: 00:59:11 Yeah. He had to keep the old machines. That didn’t work for anything else to run this file for years. Yeah. Years to the point where the screen was broken and I had to control it. Computer sitting on a desk that nobody used desktop in order to do my accounting. That was not an abandoned program.

Jason Tucker: 00:59:42 Yeah.

Bridget Willard: 00:59:42 We were in a space where we spent, we spent $14,000 to update it, but the programmer could not get it to work. Meanwhile we have to keep running our business. Okay. So just because it’s an old version doesn’t mean that it’s abandoned and I think that presumption is false and elitest, and to use a word that the millennials use privileged as F branded 2 million sites because we think it’s better is ridiculous. Now I need to break them to break them. I say we abandoned them. Microsoft, everybody in the world does this. We’re not giving you any more security updates. Put a thing in the admin that says, no, I’m over by 53 seconds, put a thing in the admin says, please contact WordPress developer. Your database is extremely out of date. We’re at risk for for being hacked or whatever they want to say, whatever core comes up with, but don’t force an upgrade because things won’t work. When I was working at the advertising agency, we took over sites. They had their own crappy, weird funky theme and it could not upgrade because the theme was funky and they wanted it and then they upgrade and as they say, WordPress breaks and they leave WordPress and go, Brocko, that’s a Mar. That’s a marketing problem. That’s a branding problem. I know it’s a language issue, a security issue, but ultimately how it’s handled is a big problem for WordPress and if they want to get that 50% they need to stop drop and roll, Love Bridget.

Jason Tucker: 01:01:47 Awesome. Thank you Bridget for being on the show with us and with us, with me and a thank you for coming and hanging out with us. All the folks that were in the chat. We really appreciate you guys coming in there and hanging out with us there. Go over to our website at Thats where you can learn to subscribe to this and all the other content that happens on our shows and when you subscribe you’re subscribing to two different things, maybe even three different things. One is you’re subscribing to our mailing list and the reason why is because I send out an email which I’m going to be sending out in just a couple of minutes telling everybody, Hey WPwatercooler’s is gonna be happening tomorrow. Feel free. Come on the show. Why do I send it so late? I sent it too late because people don’t know how to manage their calendars and they bail out on me. And so I want to make sure that they have the freshest information before they say yes to. You should go and subscribe to both of our stuff and subscribe to the safe on as a podcast. And also, if you haven’t subscribed to this channel on YouTube, feel free to go do that as well. Anyhow, thank you Bridget for hanging out and talk to y’all later. You have a good one. Bye bye.

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