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You’re hired to build a website. Maybe it’s in WordPress or Squarespace. The client pays you. You ask for the content. Now what?

Regardless of the tool, Wix, Squarespeace, WordPress, ClassicPress, you still need content. You may be using a JAMStack over Larvel. Heck, you could be doing it in FrontPage. You still need words.

Words come from clients. Clients need a website. They don’t have words. What do you do now?

Jason and Bridget talk about how you can get the content from your clients, or, better yet, outsource your content writing and include it in your contract.

Copy Bridget’s Website Questionnaire to your Google Drive to make in-house content generation easier!


Jason Tucker @jasontucker
Bridget Willard @bridgetmwillard

Check Out Bridget’s New Book

“Keys To Being Social: Being Real In A Virtual World”
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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker 0:09
This is episode number 176 a smart Marketing Show Prepping your clients for their web content.

This episode is brought to you by ServerPress, makers of DesktopServer. They make local WordPress development easy. Check them out at Check out Bridget’s new book, the keys to being social. You can go check that out over on Amazon. It’s available as a book and ebook on Kindle. Supporters over on Patreon go to slash WP watercooler. We’d really appreciate that. I’m Jason Tucker. I’m an IT director web developer. You can find me at Jason Tucker, on Twitter. And this is my friend Bridget with her newly named Bridget Willard. Go check her out over there as well. See, I added that in there for you last minute last night.

Bridget Willard 1:03
Thank you. Yeah, I changed my hair goal. I’m scared. Well, you know how it is on the internet. Sometimes you’re doing things on the fly. All of a sudden, it becomes a thing like a career was never supposed to be a career. And then here we are, you too can be a guru. I mean, I still have my jingle. But that’s not how I market myself. You know, but this is such a great topic. I’m glad that you brought this topic up. I have been passionately tweeting, especially since I launched my ebooks, my content planner and my small business book. Like, I have a code for web developers to get 50% off of that, by the way, if you go find my case, whatever, I just tweeted it out earlier today. But like, seriously, give these to your clients give it to you, you could download it once I’m not like a plugin, you could download it once and make it many copies in the Xerox room issue. It give it to as many clients as you want. Because lorem ipsum is such a liar.

Jason Tucker 2:17

Bridget Willard 2:18
you know, I mean, you have to launch with words, you have to and not just launching. But there are some mean things just to kind of like frame in my brain, what I really want to touch on is showing the site to a customer for approval, getting paid, and launching with words like those are two main reasons why you want to insource or outsource with a web copywriter?

Jason Tucker 2:55
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’ll tell you, you know, I texted you about this, I don’t remember the exact words that I use at the time. And it’s really for me, and it’s like, it’s like midday for you. Just kidding. But for me is like, the the idea is that you want to create the page using the correct words, not create the words, using the page. So I hate when like, you get these, you get these depending on how the developer or the website designer, or what have you is doing their thing, where they’ll have like a cookie cut website. So it’s like About Us page, contact us page, staff page. And you’re essentially just building pages for the sake of building pages where sometimes those things may just want to be the one thing, if it’s like about us, and you’re in it, just your contact is just the only thing you need. So it’s, I see where people want to try to fill in all of the blanks that are available for the website, because it’s this cookie cutter website that just says like, contact us about us. Products page, like each of these different pieces where maybe you don’t have a product. Why do you need a product page, maybe you don’t want to be contacted, but you only want this form. And this form is only in a certain spot. Like there’s different, every website is different. And all the different people that use these websites are going to be approaching the website in a different way. So you can’t just cookie cut the content match the website, kind of template format. So, you know, for me when I go and talk to a client and we start working out, what do you want on your website? You need to know what that content is like way before you actually start putting together pages. And if you start growing together all these like templated pages, you’re essentially telling the customer like you need to have your website built this way. isn’t necessarily true. Right? Okay,

Bridget Willard 4:55
so there’s a couple of sides to that. First of all, we’re all trained from web 2.0. And before, right, I 47. I’ve been using the internet since like, what 1993 I feel like or 1994 when I, when we got a computer from Costco at work, when I first started at that job, we typed our billing, you know, I had a typewriter, like, even companies weren’t all computerized, that was a fun project, putting all those records into the computer. So, we’re on, we’re looking at webpages, right, and we’re looking for that specific information. And now that we have mobile devices, when I want to know what the address is for doe pizzeria, or their phone number, cuz I know where they are, I didn’t know their phone number, I want to go menu, contact us, because that’s how you find it fast,

Jason Tucker 5:58

Bridget Willard 5:59
I’m trained. So when you’re trained that way, it’s a you can use that, you know, you can have home about contact and be totally fine. But people are used to that, like, they want to know who you are, especially the younger generations, the Gen Z, Gen Y, the millennials, they want all of their purchases to have value in this world, they want their jobs to have value in this world. And whether or not we ridicule them for that is up for debate. But you know, I figure like, what I do for a living pays the rent, and then when I want to make a difference in the world is how I volunteer, whereas they want all of that combined, right? So I want to support places that have Instagram and or Twitter accounts. Because that’s, you know, this is what I do for a living. So I want to be able to tweet about them. And I’m like, man, if they’re that backwards, I don’t know, maybe I maybe I don’t want to use them, because I’m going to talk about the pizza that I just bought. Right? So or I want to follow them and find the specials. I don’t want an email from you, right? I don’t I don’t want an email from you every day Old Navy, right. But I want to find out where your location is. So in that way, it’s good. The problem I see with the people I know that build websites, and and regular people who don’t realize that a website and a blog are the same thing is that you’re driving around the neighborhood with the $18 million homes in Dana Point, which is called strand, right? And you’re looking at this house, you’re like, Oh, that’s my dream home, or I Beach Road down in San Clemente. Oh, that’s my dream home, but you don’t have $18 million. Like, you can barely rent something in Riverside, and you want to talk about all the features you want? And what this is supposed to look like. Do you even have? Like, do you even have the high quality photography that it takes to make this? And do you have the budget is going to take to make sure that there’s this is accessible, like you are just this be that and accept it, but just like Touring model homes, people can’t see themselves in that. So you can show them a theme, right? Or you can say, this is even worse. I have friends and so do Jason that say, Oh yeah, I’ll build you a website. Go ahead and show me when you like, Mm hmm. What if real estate agents did that they will never make a sale.

Jason Tucker 8:54
Right? Right. I think I think those, I think when when we do that, that gives me something to work off of type of thing. It’s because of the fact that the people that are doing those initial conversations with the customer, they, they they don’t know how to interact with the customer to get like the right information out of them. They’re just like, give me an idea, like, Who’s your competitor? Who’s your what are the things that you want to do? That’s in this space, because they don’t know the space. But if you’re doing if you’re if you’re the developer designer, that’s going to be building the website, if you were Bridgette, and they were a construction customer. Or if they were one of your key key current customers that you have like that in that same arena. You would know exactly what they need to be like you would go like oh construction, you need to know like, do you have a budget for this? Do you have Do we need to get the permits for you? like whatever all the pieces are, again, I’m not I don’t work in that space. I don’t even know how to be good with it. But you need to know all those pieces. And get and get all those pieces together. Some people can look at it and go like, ah, I get it now. This company actually knows what they’re doing. Like, for instance me like I was looking for, I was looking for a company to do the electrical work at my house, apparently need to find one to do my internet work as well. But but the but with our with our electrical work I needed to find I’ve never done electrical work. I don’t know anything about it. But I needed to find like, do I need a permit for this? What type of permit Do I need for it? Am I the one that’s supposed to pull the permit or not? You know, once the permit is done? How do I actually get an inspector to come out and take care of it. But all those things should be things should be laid out on that website. So if you go to the electricians website, and you get to the spot where it’s like, I want to hire an electrician, and they go like residential, commercial, commercial doesn’t care if commercial says like, Here’s the money, we’re gonna net 3090 or whatever, and you’re done. We’re on a residential side, we need more handling. And I need more information to kind of be explained to me, it’s I can figure this out. And just like you said, This generation, once more of that information up front,

Bridget Willard 11:12
right. I mean, that that’s part of that’s part of how you go about answering that question. But I will tell you, if you’re in California, yes, you need a permit. As the owner builder, you can pull the permit yourself. But usually the general, the electrician will boil that permit me to drawings, you probably drawings, and that they will put pull that permit. And I know like I was texting you. Yes, I that. I know you didn’t do.

Jason Tucker 11:45
I did all the things right, the research.

Bridget Willard 11:49
Bind Off, you have to call the city need to keep a copy of that blah, blah, blah. Right? Right. But that is why you’re hiring the experts. So we as web developers, and I say we lightly I mean, I have taken classes. I can’t build a website. You don’t want me to though, but we know better. We are that this is where Steve Jobs got it. Right. Look, here’s the iPhone, you get three choices. It’s not Henry Ford, you can have any color you like, as long as it’s black. But it’s pretty close. choices are the worst thing you do not building homes, three model homes. How many iPhones are there three? Right? People like odd numbers three is enough. It feels like you have some price anchoring, right. So if I were building websites for a living, which I could very well do an advertise and then outsource to my friends. I don’t have to do the building. Right? Tons of people come to me and they’re like, Oh, yeah, I do this. And then somebody is like, why do you have 4000? I’m marking that up to 2000. And then I’ll pay you on the side, I could do that. I could do that starting right now by wanting to write, but you still need the words. So I would what I would do is I would say you have three different choices. You could have 2020 2021 or 2020 or not 2019 you know, whatever, it doesn’t matter. And then if you want to throw up or you can have Beaver Builder theme, and then I’ll throw it up on there. But what I want to know is what’s important to you, because, you know, is an avocation up here and the navigation down here doesn’t matter how many people are really going to be on their phone anyway. We’re we’re distracted by what light fixture we need. Instead of realizing maybe we don’t even need light in there. Maybe we need a you know, words. Okay, so anyway, skylight right, or skylights, because it’s more energy conscious. The thing is that when you and this has been a discussion in WordPress, and I actually contributed, but editing pre written content that’s loaded on themes going back to 2016. I think we did. But like so that’s the thing. You need to imagine your content there. Okay. And in order to imagine your content there, you need to hire a writer. Okay. So one of the things I always hear from our friends is, well, I can’t watch the website because I’m waiting on the client for content. No, no, never do that. Okay, so like, I think it was Jennifer Bourne. That said, if you if she’s waiting for you in the contract, she’d be like, Okay, well, you’re on the back burner, and it cost this much money, get to the front. I mean, that’s another way to do. But when I was working for the advertising agency, we didn’t do it that way. We said we’re building it. We’re writing the words. You can give us words if you want to. We’re going to charge you for interviewing your employees, we’re going to have content writers, this is part of the SEO budget, we’re going to release this five page website, you’re going to do the initial approval, we have a contract for a year. And then every month, we’re going to add x amount of pages. And we’re going to allow your website to be built organically. So it’s your job as a web professional, as a web developer, to educate the client, that this is not a brochure. This is a living, breathing representation of your business online. It should not be it’s built, it’s done ever. So you need to add words to it, because that’s what people want. That’s what’s important for voice search and everything like that. So one of these other clients I work for as a vendor, ironically, in roofing is that they have this giant client onboarding spreadsheet. So the client has to fill out all the spreadsheet, but spreadsheets are good for databases and accountants, they are not good for people. And so half the time when I’m in there, even the stuff I get from the clients isn’t written out, or they’re like, we’ll go see our website. And then I’m like, well, the project manager dropped the ball on that, didn’t she? Or he, right? So I created a tool

that you can copy to your own Google Drive, that that you can send to your you can brand it however you want. It’s at Bitly bi, slash Bridget Webb questions that talks about all the like, kind of like prompts people, like, if I, as the writer, on this project, had all the answers I ever wanted to be able to do the homepage, the about page and the Contact Us page to do those three pages. These are the questions I would want answered from the client, then I would write the web content for that template, whatever template was chosen, then you give it to your clients, they approve it. And then you get paid. Okay, this solves a bunch of problems at the same time. It’s mark up your web to build so that you can afford to hire somebody like me. Or somebody in house to get those words in your theme. Don’t wait for them. They don’t know. You know, like, Oh, well. I need something for the About Us page. And they’re like, but Aren’t you the one who builds the website? Yes, but I don’t write words. I’m just building. Yeah, but Aren’t you the one that does this, it’s like, people don’t understand the web. So they don’t even understand. That’s why I love going back to the home. Right? You if you want to sell your home, a lot of times people take out everything. And then it’s hard to sell this why home staging is so important. People can’t imagine and even my very good client, Kyle Clayton of team Clayton, he says the worst room is a bedroom because people can’t even visualize if the room is big enough for their king size bed. And they always ask is this room big enough for my king sized bed?

Jason Tucker 18:27
Right. And that’s like one of the things that Rhonda was saying here is that this is way earlier on in our conversation, but I wanted to surface it is they they being the client, they don’t understand what your style is, for the person who’s building the website, you know, for them, you’re not going to get the same website from two different people, they’re all going to be different and the way that they’re going to be designed the way that they’re going to be built internally. Any of those things are definitely going to be different. Think of it, think of it like a tattoo parlor. You know, not all tattoo tattoos are the same. They’re all different. And each one has a different style. Some people are really good at faces, some people are really good at, you know, at geometric shapes, there’s all these different different ways that people can go in design these things. And not all of them are, you know, are really great at every single one of them, they’re a little bit different. So with this, like especially when you’re talking about the the word side of it, even the way that the writer is going to be writing this, especially if you go and like outsource or write or if you’re if the writer is going to write this in a different way you have some that are going to be writing it in a way that’s that’s as if the owner of the website is like speaking to you or another sometimes it’s just It’s going to be very dry. It just depends on if you have personality within that, within that brand or not, you know, like, if the brand is just some, like really like 300 year old brick and mortar company, they’re gonna probably be pretty dry and the text probably needs to be written and the dry depends and it just, it just depends on with their marketing strategy. Well,

Bridget Willard 20:21
it shouldn’t be dry ever, but it should reflect the brand. Okay, right.

Jason Tucker 20:25

a writer, by the way, just so you know if anybody who’s watching I’m a developer not not a writer.

Bridget Willard 20:35
So there are different kinds of writers. I am not a thesis writer. I am never going to try to get a PhD okay. I don’t care at enough to spend enough time doing that. Right so I’m the people who write like it’s a technical piece are not copywriters. I’ve had this discussion and make WordPress people who write documentation are not copywriters. copywriting is marketing. It’s writing for a marketing person purpose, you are writing for an audience. And here is the most important thing any business owner on the planet should understand you. Yes, you are not your audience. So don’t look for your peers to look at it. Nobody cares. You know, you, you want to have a pissing contest and have a pissing contest. But if you don’t have a website, you you really need to focus on getting something up there. And then as you grow, you can redesign it with photos, and dah dah dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. I’m Joseph Benson is asking what do you do? If a client has a strong feelings in general about creating or shaping the copy on the site, but they can’t or won’t deliver on that? Do you have a good way to write collaboratively? Yes. That is why I have the questionnaire you have them. You have them fill that out. And then you and then you hire somebody to write either on staff or you outsource it, you write that content from it, you publish it on the website, you have in your contract that they have one. Review revision, anything after one revision is a change order. Or you save that for phase two of the build, so that you’re making a path to keep that client. If the client is insisting on being the only one who writes the copy, then that person is not a good client. And you should either backburner it like Jennifer Bourne does at say, when you have the words, then we will start your you know, we’ll start your project again. And it’s $350 for us to start again. Or you never take that client. So these are questions you should have in your mind. You have to project what are they going to ask? Right? So when you’re in the meeting with them, ask them so about the cons, what were you know what content what you really we’ve say content, they don’t know what the hell that means.

Jason Tucker 23:32
Right? Well, who

Bridget Willard 23:32
is going to write the words? That’s why I always say words stuck just to be funny. Nobody knows what content means.

Jason Tucker 23:40
Just like how youtubers call themselves content creators when it’s ambiguous.

Bridget Willard 23:47
No, seriously, like my neighbor member. She’s asking what do you do when you’re sitting at your computer all day? I finally just said I put words on the internet. And she understood that. Okay, I write I write I write for social media companies. What does that mean people pay you to write for them?

Jason Tucker 24:03

Bridget Willard 24:04
Oh, I write blog posts. People pay to do that. Yes. So now I just go I put words on the internet, people understand that you read words, but the words are for the people. So if you hire a writer, who is a marketing copywriter, then you will get the right words. And I’m telling you, I’ve had clients where they go, Oh, man, you’re too you cost too much. And it’s not a sales pitch for me hire whoever, but hire somebody who is a native speaker. Now I have friends in Germany, who would love to hire me, but I am not a German speaker. So even if I learned German proficiency proficiently enough, right, I will still never be able to write marketing. Coffee in German, until I intensely understand the culture. This is important to get a copywriter and we’ve had producer Jen on the show so many times Jason, and what she specializes in at next door marketer, I hire her sometimes my clients know it, but I do. Because what they do it that they shine at is they will get the nuance of that local culture. Right. So if you’re talking about barbecue in Texas has nothing to do with pork. Okay, there’s no there’s no ribs here. There’s no barbecue ribs, BBQ ribs or beef. You want pork. You go to St. Louis. Okay, so Texas is all about the B. So because it’s the cattle industry, like this is just the way it is. So you can what she does is they’ll go on Yelp pages, they’ll read customer reviews, they deeply research, the jargon that people use, the way they use the words you know, and it’s really funny, Jason because you got me on tik tok, right? Yeah. And it’s all your fault. Well, I’m gonna blame you for it. But anyway, what am I one of the one of my friends on tik tok. Now, one of the people I like to watch his I don’t remember his handle right now. But he’s from New Orleans. And he starts every video saying hey cuyana about to learn you a thing or three. And he talks about the kind of Cajun Creole slant on things and how they say things there. Right. So but and you know, there’s different dialects, even within areas you know, in Texas, nobody says car nobody says all I have a car. No, they have a vehicle of vehicles.

Jason Tucker 27:08
I thought it was truck because I just didn’t know but

Bridget Willard 27:11
a truck, but it’s their vehicle. ages are more pronounced. Vehicle vehicle. Really interesting. So like, that would be so if I was writing for a mechanic in San Antonio. And I said Bring your car in today. It’s not wrong. But bring your vehicle in.

Jason Tucker 27:39
Or the vehicle salesman?

Bridget Willard 27:42
We’re product car salesman. I’m just saying what the people say. So when I why that’s important though Jason members because a boy Hey, Siri,

Jason Tucker 27:51
right. Right.

Bridget Willard 27:54
Hey, Alexa, work. Can I get my vehicle inspected?

Jason Tucker 27:58
Uh huh.

Bridget Willard 27:59
That’s why it matters. So you can hire somebody from the Philippines and no offense. There’s tons of people in the Philippines are awesome. But I mean, the anyway, that this one vendor, I had hired people from South Africa. And that’s fine. Like they’re native English speakers, but they’re not. They’re not Americans.

Jason Tucker 28:21
Well, they’re hyper hyper focused, and essentially living in that part of the king, not part of town. But that part of the country. Oh world,

Bridget Willard 28:32
right. Like when I when I was writing for my client in New Zealand. I was spelling things differently, wasn’t I? Right?

Jason Tucker 28:45
Yeah, you were

Bridget Willard 28:47
to the point where I was messing up my own tweets,

Jason Tucker 28:49
your essays and your seed, round and all sorts of things,

Bridget Willard 28:53
etc. And then I’m so impressionable. I picked that up. I’m like, I’m like, Oh, yeah. Hey, cuyana. Oh, that’s a

Jason Tucker 29:02
good thing or three.

Bridget Willard 29:04
thing is that a writer who does that is worth it. And so this this client, but I’m telling you about, actually said, okay, you’re just too expensive. I’m glad you. I’m glad people pay that, but it’s not in our budget. Okay. Go for it. Do you, boo. couple months later, Oh, my gosh, I will pay that much just to write the homepage, because that’s what clients want to look at. Mm hmm. Right. And that’s what they approve. The home page matters. And, and it’s our job as web professionals to educate our clients. If they want a big giant keuro images and pictures everywhere, that’s fine. But you need 300 words you need 300 words that captivate your audience. And you know, like even Raja and I work on my own landing pages and I did the same thing. I wrote the copy Be honest, straight thing, right? And then she made the layout and put it in. And then I looked at it a couple of times, I was like, ooh, I don’t really like that there and I edited it. So there was one revision,

Jason Tucker 30:14
right? So do you, do you think that that having going back to the, the barbecue example, would it be better to hire just just outright, if you’re going to be building a website for a Texas barbecue, to just hire somebody who’s a writer from Texas, and just have them do the writing for it, because I think that sometimes we spend a lot of time money and, and, and time and money to try to get someone like, brought up to speed in order to be able to do you know, the type of work that they need to do, I wouldn’t it just be easier to just say, Hey, I’m writing to doing this website, I’m doing it for a local barbecue places, not just some someone that you just kind of drive by and you go, I might stop by there. This is the one that has the line out the door. This is the one that they want to have all the local football teams mentioned, kind of all the different types of, you know, the way in which they prepare their meat and the way that everything needs to be, you know, it’s like, I would take a lot of time for a Bridget to go and have to like, learn up right, like you have to research to be able to pull up that that type of stuff, right? Yeah.

Bridget Willard 31:33
But that’s why my fee is my fee. Right? So like, if I’m running a blog post 175, if I’m running for your webpage at 65, because there are less words. But yeah, I’m going to be looking at your social media profiles and seeing what people are saying to you and what you’re saying to them. And then from that of writer is the person who can decipher? Yeah, we interpret what that means. And how you fun. Now, if you don’t have that, and you’re working from nothing, then we go back to kind of what our best practices are, you know, something maybe more generic, but, you know, it’s just it does it depends, you know, I mean, in San Antonio roofing, I’m not going to talk about tornadoes. It’s not a big tornado area. This is definitely not a hurricane area, either. This is where people from Corpus Christi and Houston are evacuated to. This is a live show. Dallas Fort Worth is in the Jetstream. So they’re getting the tornadoes right. Here is Hill, and one of the only things is more expensive in San Antonio, the data point for me is car insurance, because we have hail. And there’s tons of standing seam roofs,

Unknown Speaker 32:49
metal roofs,

Bridget Willard 32:50
why do you have metal roofs? Because the hail, right? big giant golf ball, I haven’t seen it yet. And I’m just waiting for like, you know, I know it’s gonna be a $250 windshield repair, that’s gonna happen, it will happen. So like, but that is why you hire professional. You know, this is why you hire a writer, a writer knows to ask these questions, just like a web developer knows to ask, Do you need a form? Are you integrating your email marketing? What you need your website to do? In addition to what do you need your website to say? What do you want the customer to do? When they get to your website? Are they filling out a form? They fill out a form? What happens? What do you want to happen when you get that information? Do you want it to be an email that just goes to you? Are they connecting to your Salesforce? Right? Or is it a donation to this that need to connect to your accounting system? Is it you know, is it e commerce? You know, what is it that you want people to do? That’s the engineer’s question, right? Mm hmm. And we are the people that will ask, how do we get this person to do that thing? Right? If you didn’t ask the client, they would have already built the website then own damn selves.

Jason Tucker 34:26
Mm hmm.

Bridget Willard 34:27
They don’t know that. Right. Wait, it couldn’t meanie. I mean, like, oh, it is so sweet to me. But basically, I’m not allowed to do anything with my website. I’m

Jason Tucker 34:46
just curiously typing up.

Bridget Willard 34:48
Yeah. Oh, man. I wish all my clients were like, you know, I had to learn I was my own worst clients. You think you could do something? No, let the professionals do it. You know, I mean, how budget for that. But again, like, this is about web developers, what should you do? You should reach out to a writer, somebody, you know, there’s tons of people. I told you, she would say something. There’s tons of people, you know that right? You just don’t know because you haven’t asked. So think about people who in your meetups and in your local area, or tweet out, Hey, who’s a copywriter asked copywriter, not a technical writer, not a documentation person who’s a copywriter. And I mean, Kitty lesbi is bomb at web page content. Jen Miller is bomb at web page content, Robert nissenbaum, bomb at web page content.

Jason Tucker 35:44
I mean,

show notes for these folks. Because

Bridget Willard 35:48
Yeah, of course, I’ll put links in there. But what I’m saying is like, that’s, that’s legit, right? And I’m really good at articles. I try to write articles, I can do web copy. Of course, I could do web copy. Right? There are people that are super good at it, they’re usually booked up. So have like three people you can find that can work on projects with you ask them what their lead time is, as some of the prices are, if they charge per word, do not hire them. I’m sorry. But the thing is that when it comes to web copy, it’s about editing more, it’s about cutting more than adding, you know, you’re not writing an installation of A Christmas Carol, this out in a magazine every week and getting paid by the word, right? We don’t want we want brevity, we want it to be concise. And we want it to say exactly what you mean, in a way that that is important to the person reading it.

Jason Tucker 36:59
Mm hmm.

Bridget Willard 37:01
So I

Jason Tucker 37:02
would also add that when you have them doing this writing, to have them do all of the Open Graph writing as well, having the title be correct, have the actual description within the Open Graph information be correct. These are things that people are going to that are there, they don’t show up on the website, but they show up everywhere else. So anytime that stuff gets shared someplace, that content needs to draw those people into the site. So when you know something, your customer goes and shares some link, and they’re not just sharing it on social, they’re sharing as a text message. And that text message is gonna pop up. If you know from iphone or android or what have you. It’s your graphic, what’s up in its use of the graphic, and it’s just gonna show the text below it. And that text needs to say like, I want you to come to this website, and in that render is going to be the one that’s going to pull that in.

Bridget Willard 37:56
And that’s a call to action. Exactly. Literally every Google Doc I start title, keyword meta description, and I don’t care how long it can be. Aim for 155 characters or less. Because you don’t know how much it’s going to show up depending upon their device. And yes, Google can take any text out from wherever your pages, but, but most likely, that is the SERP shows up in the search engine results. A lot of people say you don’t need a meta description because you should just write it right the first place. I don’t want my first sentence to be that salesy. And also, I slept I make them slightly different because I know that it’s gonna show up on social that way. Right? Okay, we’ll have a double opportunity to get eyeballs. And that’s what we’re getting last we’re aiming for, we want as many eyeballs as we can. So you don’t have to be in there making telephone calls all the time.

Jason Tucker 39:03
So like your, your opener of that of that paragraph on that site is not going to be the best text. Usually it’s your opener, it’s, it’s the part that’s gonna draw the person into the rest of the text. But if there’s nothing else but an image, and then that description down there in the you know, in that, that energy content, then you’re gonna have a hard time.

Bridget Willard 39:27
Well, it’s a missed opportunity to. And so every page, every page should have a featured image. Every page should have a meta description. And I don’t care if you don’t like Yoast, or whatever. Use an Open Graph plugin. Make that standard on your bills. Don’t wait for the customer to ask for it. You don’t know. And by the way, since I’m ranting about things where professionals don’t do correctly Can I do something about staging?

Jason Tucker 40:03
Oh my gosh, yes.

Bridget Willard 40:11
First of all, you know how much I love automation, not okay. But if you are using especially WP Engine happens all the time, I see it all the time do and you copy a website over, or you put a website in staging, turn off the social sharing plugins immediately. Especially if it’s jetpack with publicize, because I don’t even know how many times I see tweets that say that [email protected] and I’m like this is from a staging site. And they’re like, Oh, no, it’s not. Unlike y’all. It is cuz it’s the engine and the domain name.

Jason Tucker 41:03
Yeah, we talked about this on episode 373 dP water cooler, and one things you should turn off. And one things you should just make sure are not turned on at all. on your website when you’re working in staging. I’ve done this plenty of times. I’ve installed a new plugin, I’ve imported data, install a new plugin that’s going to go and do auto tweets, and then import a new content. So it’s like one point I was playing around with like Instagram, importing Instagram images into my website, just because just because and it started tweeting out every single image that I’ve ever posted on Instagram was going out that way. So yeah, you definitely want to make sure that you have these things turned off and by but in one other thing. Going back to staging real quick staging is a great place to put this new content in. treated, treated just like code. Oh, yes, but this new content and in staging and play around with it 100%. You don’t need to have cowboy code, you don’t need to live edit your site to get this content put in there. Yeah, use it, you know, put your content in there, play around with it, make sure it works good. On our sponsor on our show here, WP site sync, they will sync your content between your staging site and your normal site if you wanted to do that as well. So it’s worth it to put that in staging because, for one, it allows the the person who’s writing content to play around with the content on the site. They can leave things around, they can play around with it and see how it’s gonna look. It should this be an h2? Should this be an h3? how’s it gonna look when it goes to the search engines, like all those things are things like that,

Bridget Willard 42:49
Oh, my God. Also about headings. I don’t care who you are, or what they look like, they should be in logical order for screen for screen readers per se go for everything. You don’t even know how much dollars people have paid me to re fix. h2 h3 h5 is nothing to do with the font size, you don’t like the font size and go back to your designer.

Jason Tucker 43:17
Uh huh.

Bridget Willard 43:18
But don’t do that. Do not do that. Oh, my God. I mean, ideally, if you can hire a designer in the beginning, like we had the episodes rondon, the empathy map in the novel branding person who’s gonna get that whole flavor for you. And that whole like nuance, and that will inform the copywriter, you should give the copywriter as much information as you have, so that they can write it correctly. And I told people on Twitter that if they watched almost to the end, they would get a something extra. And I didn’t tell them what it was. So this is for you people on my Twitter account, who actually are here at the 44 minute mark, right for the Tool Tip of the Week. If you the first five people on like a radio ad, oh no. The first five people who DM me all in caps, send me your book with your mailing address. We’ll get my book. This is 200 and something pages of my best advice and a bibliography if you want to do more 220 pages and it is normal type so you don’t probably need your reading glasses. So if you are listening and you don’t have this book or you want to send it to your client, I don’t care first five people to DM me on Twitter. I want your book all in caps because I it has to you guys got to learn to listen and listening means obeying. I know that sounds weird, but like the other day I tweeted out I’m really looking for female plugin developers, because I want to start sharing their content and ever I got tagged on all the women in WordPress.

Jason Tucker 45:09

Bridget Willard 45:10
Well, I don’t want all the women in WordPress. I want the people who identify as female, sorry, who have a plugin have their own for sale. I mean, congratulations, you’re on the VIP Team. Congratulations, you are developing plugins for private plugins for your I want to know what you have for sale. And I want to because I’m doing content creation twice a month for my clients, and why aren’t we helping each other? You know? So? Right. There’s not that many, but I’m making a list. So you can also tweet me with the link to your thing you have for sale? Or if it’s in the repo is still for sale? Like you still want somebody to download it. That’s a sales just a sale. Right? I think that there’s just not enough women, um, plugin owner shops, plugin shop owners clothes are developed by women.

Jason Tucker 46:15
I agree.

Bridget Willard 46:16
So let’s help each other if we’re gonna do that, but also

Jason Tucker 46:20
Tool, Tip of the Week. Tool, Tip of the Week. Oh,

Bridget Willard 46:24
man, there’s a lot there was a lot going on. So um, well,

Jason Tucker 46:29
the Tool Tip of the Week is obviously sponsored by Bridget, go check out Bridget Why don’t you check out Brandon’s book, the keys to being social, you can go over to Amazon and do a search for that. You can also find it as a Kindle book. And you can download that as well. Go take a look at that.

Bridget Willard 46:45
Yeah, that cover is designed by Rhonda. Thank you Rhonda. I mean, also, like I’m not having a black friday deal on it. It’s already $10 like people are addicted to discounts, and then you’re always gonna have a discount. They’re not gonna buy your product any other any other time of the year. They’re gonna be like, oh, Black Friday is on November 28. So I might have it sorry. So I might as well just wait. Maybe just get rice Christians. But whatever. That’s another topic. And it’ll be in a different book. You heard it here first. My Tool Tip of the Week is reflector three. Okay, so I wanted to do a tutorial on how to manage a Facebook page. But mainly because you need the desktop version. But you’ll also need the page manager app, which is now called business suite. And you also need the Facebook app. So I wanted to be able to screen share like you do all the time showing up but here’s the thing. I sold my Apple TV because I stopped using it. So here’s my fire stick in my all Mac household.

Jason Tucker 47:59
Someone bought that.

Bridget Willard 48:01
Yeah. 40 bucks?

Just can’t use HBO max on it. But apparently you can’t use HBO max on anything. What are you doing to yourself, HBO Max, stop it. Anyway, I know. I want to watch my little show. I’m like, I gotta watch it online. You know what, whatever. I’m almost about to go to Showtime and I’m getting HBO max free. But at&t fiber show right now. Anyway, okay, I was waiting for you to do that. So this allows you to screen share or screen mirror with out a big iPhone or be needing the Apple TV to do this. Because I was like, why can’t I do this? I used to be able to do this. I used to be able to do this and Dana Point, because I had an Apple TV. Now I don’t have I was like, I was so proud of myself. Because I was like, Listen, I know what Jason’s gonna say he goes, I have an Apple TV. What’s wrong with you? Why don’t you have an Apple TV? It’s almost been 150 bucks on something that I could just use my fire stick for. Why isn’t it called a prime stick? It should be called a prime stick. So anyway, um, it was worth every dollar I paid for, I don’t know. $25 something like that? Because

Jason Tucker 49:23
it 99 us,

Bridget Willard 49:25
you know, and that’s the thing is like it’s under $20 almost anything under $20 that’s an easy Yes. And I was like, Well, I’m gonna use this twice. At least for those two videos. It was worth it just for that. And I am managing I will be able to do more tutorials. You’ve been on Instagram and all that. You know, I just I felt it was really easy to use. It was. I mean easy for me to use. And I had only one issue with it. When you pair it the same way with the Apple TV. You put the code on You know, your phone, your eyes. But the thing is that it did kind of, you know, just connect in the middle of a tutorial, but whatever, you know, it doesn’t matter. But the thing is, there are certain things you could only do on your phone, or you only do it a certain way on your phone. And so you have to be able to show people things that way. And it’s just helpful. So plus, you know, if I wanted to watch HBO max on my app, I could just put it to my desktop, I mean, bad example, because I just go to HBO max on the browser. But

Jason Tucker 50:43
yeah, what’s nice about this one is you can have multiple devices connect to it at the same time. So if you wanted to have, you know, have your two different phones be displayed on the screen if you’re comparing between Android and iPhone, or whatever it showed up on on the screen as both of them. The other one that I really liked about this one, and I played with about four or five different ones of these, and I bought them all. So I have copies of this one, as well as all the rest of them. What I really liked about this one is this thing over here where you can use the device frames, so that actually puts the frame of the device on the screen. So when you’re showing it, it doesn’t look like some like weird floating window. But it actually looks like the, the, you know, the device itself. So you can see how the device itself gets displayed there. So that’s super helpful. And really, really nice. Because it just it shows that this thing is an you know, an iPhone or an Android or whatever, and you’re trying to display it on the screen. Yeah, this is a good one, Bridget, you found you found it, you find a great, a great resource to be able to kind of make this all happen in for under 20 bucks. It’s, it’s perfect.

Bridget Willard 51:56
Yeah, you know, and the thing is, like when you’re searching around for stuff, I mean, I knew screen mirroring. So look, a wireless screen mirroring application. say, Oh, you don’t have an Apple TV, no problem, like, please stop there. I knew it was called screen mirroring. And I couldn’t believe I couldn’t screen mirror on from my iPhone xR or tied to my mac book without the Apple TV.

Jason Tucker 52:27
Well, welcome. It’s

Bridget Willard 52:29
just is what it is not very many choices. But that is a good thing. Sometimes you barely ever have to go outside the box.

Jason Tucker 52:38
That’s true. Well, I, I was actually my tour attempt was something that I wanted to show on the screen. But I just reinstalled a new the new version of the operating system on my computer. So I haven’t actually installed any of my software yet. Which is why it took me a minute to get this to slope on the screen because I had to say yes to a whole bunch of things. But what I wanted to what I wanted to tell you about was there’s a company called light tricks. And light tricks is is a company that makes iPhone apps, and they have a whole suite of iPhone apps actually have pretty much all of them installed on my phone here. And what they do is they make these apps that will do either animations or cool things with photography, I’ll pull up their website, so you can take a look at it. I was gonna I was going to, like, demonstrate some stuff that you can do with it. But apparently, like I didn’t have enough, I didn’t have my stuff installed here to make it happen. Yeah, here we go. So let me pull it up. So um, yeah, so like tricks make some really great. It’s kind of like Adobe, they just have like a suite of products. And they’ve been making some really great apps over the last couple years here. And I’ll pull up their, their product listing. So they they sell these for social media stuff. They’re the company that makes face to face to fish. Yeah, right, exactly. But they have these great ones like this one called photo Fox, which makes it so that you can do really cool looking, you know, effects with, you know, with the, with the photos that you have. And you can kind of see how they kind of do a couple different little things here that you can play around with to see how the changes of it will look that the one in particular that I’ve been using quite a bit is their video editor. And this, this video lead is great because if you have access to a green screen, you can do cool stuff like that. But you can do video editing right off the phone. Oh, one time for a long time I was using. I was using an app called insight insight gives gives a lot of this sort of stuff. But insight, and my photos are all hosted on Google Earth on Apple photos. And they’re all in the cloud. And for some reason, like inshot, in cloud, cloud hosted images just don’t work very well. So, um, video leaflets been working really well, I’ve been doing a lot of my video editing. Using this, if I’m going to be posting something on the, to Instagram, or what have you, I’ll use video lead to do that editing. They haven’t they have a app that does kind of the same sort of thing with like, quick shot where you can take photos and then make make quick little changes to them. And then this looping one is just the coolest, because you can do all these really neat looking changes to your to your photos, if you want to make something span that doesn’t actually, you could do that. If you wanted to make it look like the sky is moving in your photos. It’ll be if you want just like particles flying around, or this is just a static image that they may look like it’s moving.

Bridget Willard 56:11
Almost give me seasickness.

Jason Tucker 56:13
Yeah, it’s pretty cool. So I have a whole bunch of other apps as well, that they’ve been kind of putting out there. But yeah, the first one was the one with doing face to hear. Yeah, face tune. And if you know that they you know the type of stuff that they’re able to pull off with face tune, you can see that they can pick and pull off some amazing stuff with with other things as well. So something to play around with and take a look at and see, you know, if any of their apps work for you, they do have a, they do have a like a package deal that you can buy the majority of these big leap apps, and feel free to take a look at that. Let me know what you make. And if you make something cool, tag me in that because I’d love to see it because I’ve been trying to put it in put a lot of that type of content out there on on Instagram. And it’s really boring to take a picture of like, here’s my, you know, my, my electrical box being messed with. But with video leave, I was able to speed them up and slow it down and add audio and do a whole bunch of fun stuff like that. And it didn’t take a whole lot of time to do it.

Bridget Willard 57:22
Yeah, post production you have to do for those Tick Tock videos like, this is my age. Just as I said, I just love to just like I was like eff that here it all is at once.

Jason Tucker 57:37
Well, I’ll tell you, for instance, the huge thing that’s happening on Tick Tock and we should probably have been doing a whole whole episode on Tick Tock because Tick tock, there’s, there’s a there’s a huge need for having having transcriptions actually show up on the screen. And I’m seeing that a lot of tech talkers are doing ARD putting in those subtitles on the screen, but they’re having to do them manually. And, and I would I would hate to do like what you just described, having to put all that text in over and over again, to be able to update it. Just use a third party app to do it and then take that video and then upload it

Bridget Willard 58:18
to tick tock guy no time for that crap.

Jason Tucker 58:22
The kids on TikTock don’t have enough time.

Bridget Willard 58:25
All kids like let me tell you, like I saw I saw I’m in the black hole. Okay, and

Jason Tucker 58:33
I wasn’t using kids as the only little kids I was saying like,

Bridget Willard 58:37
my age and half the time you see all that crap on Instagram anyway, so you might as well go look at their real place. You know, I mean, so horrifying like you showed me the Korea Dad. Hi, I’m your dad. You know, but like the I love to do what I just did Kirk Franklin duet a couple duets that this guy just randomly saw like you can you know if you’re missing karaoke like I am like just people actually singing right? I’m not doing all the dancing stuff the testing stuff is so much post production.

Jason Tucker 59:18
Ah if you wanted to you can use video leave to add some backgrounds do

Bridget Willard 59:25
like do that dance.

Jason Tucker 59:29
Well, I do have I do have one thing since we only did we have like a like a half minute here. So one thing with that video leave and I may end up actually doing a little bit about video editing at some point is the one thing that was really cool about that video leap system is that you could actually record a video that is horizontal for YouTube. And then in video lead you can tell it to make it a vertical video and follow the person around on the horizontal Plan. So you’re actually being able to repurpose the video that you need already. So we may need to do something like that I need to talk to a couple of folks that do video stuff and have them come on the show. And we can kind of work through some of that, but really interesting stuff that you can do with it.

Bridget Willard 1:00:15
I wish we could get the Haikou young guy on because he’s just a dad. No, it’s just some normal person with a daughter this like a teenager, and he’ll just do this stuff. People are like sending them presents and stuff. They’re like YouTube stars but on Tick tock,

Jason Tucker 1:00:33

Bridget Willard 1:00:35
you know, I mean, it is like I could see as business. It can be fun, but for me, I was just like,

Jason Tucker 1:00:43

Bridget Willard 1:00:46
I’ll dive into it.

Jason Tucker 1:00:48
Bridget, thanks for coming on the show. As always, thank you all for interacting with us in our chat. We really appreciate it. Here’s how we get our students to support us on Patreon go to slash WP water there is a fine folks that have helped us out we really appreciate that. We’d love to have your name list added to this list. If you want to take a look at the other shows that we have on the network, I’m free to do that over to did quarter slash subscribe regarding how to subscribe to this and all the other there as well. We’re a podcast if you’re not aware we are podcast go over to Dave Yarborough comm slash subscribe to learn about that until later

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EP176 – Prepping Your Clients for Their Web Content…

Warren Laine-Naida

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Warren Laine-Naida

This is going to be a great show! Am holding off dinner until it’s over (EU) ????

@Jason Tucker and @BridgetMWillard live!

#websites #content @WPwatercooler

Bridget Willard

I have a free (copy to your own G Drive) resource, too.…

See you in a couple of hours.

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