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Hoards of people have signed up for every course they can, hoping to use their time well during the “New Normal of COVID-19.” But, they are also overwhelmed. They’ve got 99 courses but your course ain’t one. So, how do you appeal to them, stand out, and market your online course?
This episode, Jason and Bridget are joined by Chris Badgett of LifterLMS. He’s very active on Twitter as well as YouTube. So if you’re thinking about designing an online course, go check those resources out. You can even watch his 13 video playlist of starting an online course.
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Historically, we’ve had revolutions and evolutions: the enlightenment age, the industrial revolution, the information revolution. Now, Chris says, we are in the integration age.
“So the, the way I look at it is that they were kind of transitioning out of the information age into the integration age. And that includes integrating information, boiling it down, getting past overwhelm. And, honoring the limited lifespan we have and attention we have. So the old model of education is really around getting access to the best information. The new model is about getting results efficiently and going direct as the shortest path possible to the ideal outcome.” Chris Badgett
We all have access to thousands of libraries — free, thousands of courses — free. Yet, how many of us take advantage? Few. We’re overwhelmed with information. We need to know how this information is relevant to our lives.
“When you design around your expertise in the information and not the learning journey and the result of the person, once you end up with these like giant, I call them, resource courses, like giant courses that are extremely dangerous and get abandoned a lot.” Chris Badgett
Support the Learning Journey
Supporting the learning journey with your online course means you design the course with the end in mind. What are the expected results?
Being overwhelmed is a factor of motivation. Why is the learner taking the online course? Is it to get a certificate? There are two types of motivation when it comes to learning: extrinsic and intrinsic.
Extrinsic motivation could be a monetary reward (raise at work) or earning respect (credentials on LinkedIn). Intrinsic motivation comes from a desire from your soul to improve. Knowing what motivates your learner, helps you design your course.
Adding a map for your online course, reverse engineering it from the end result, with milestones helps with course retention.
An easy way to do this is to have a challenge. They lend themselves well to steps and pre-training/gamification.
“One of the things that’s exploding in marketing right now is what are called challenge funnels. …Why is it, why are challenged funnels exploding? Well, what’s the challenge? The challenge is designed around a result and a challenge is time bound. So, you know, there could be like a 30 day challenge, a 90 day challenge, a four day challenge, whatever it is, health, wealth, relationships, whatever.” Chris Badgett
Transformation is Over-Hyped
Not every course needs to lead to a caterpillar-to-butterfly transformation. Most of the transformations we see, in nature or otherwise, aren’t overnight anyway. Rather, they are a series of steps, completed.
When it comes to marketing your online course we tend to pitch transformation. But when it comes to any kind of product, the marketing has to revolve around one question:
“What’s in it for me?”
Creating early wins and adding support for the learner as well as community will help retain learners to your online course. You can even move to the coach model with weekly office hours in a group format. You spend the same hour a week, with many learners.
“The easiest way to do that add a weekly office hour call that you don’t have to prepare for, and they just show up with questions. It’s a group format so it can scale, like, okay, if you have a lot of people that follow you or in the program, it’s still just one hour on your calendar.” Chris Badgett
Coaching Over Information
Information is great. But if you create 10 courses that is simply a vault of your information, without any coaching, you won’t have a high course completion rate. Further, you’re not supporting the learner in their journey.
An important part of coaching is the right fit. This isn’t about a good fit for your online course. It’s a fit between the learner and the coach. Do their personality and communication styles match? How about the learner’s style of learning? What about loyalty?
“Real coaching, whether that’s business coaching, life coaching, relationship coaching, it’s about fidelity.” Chris Badgett
We tend to have these types of courses that circle around and around, like a spiral road going to the top of the mountain. There is no personalization or way to test out. That’s frustrating for the learner.
When your online course includes personalization, you are supporting the learner’s journey and reducing frustration. When you can tell a client to take this course over that one, then they are no longer overwhelmed.
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Chris recommends his YouTube Traffic System course.
Jason recommends Descript.com. It allows you to edit the transcript and the video. Super cool.
Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.
Bridget Willard: [00:00:44] Like everybody’s trying to do all this stuff to get their business going and they’re signing up for this class and that class and this class. And I went to school to be a teacher. That’s what my student loan is for. And I love to consider myself a lifelong learner, cause I read nonfiction and I like to watch documentaries.
But I signed up for a Moz SEO basics course and did about 10 minutes of it. It was like, I’m out. Like, what do you do when people are so overwhelmed, Chris,
Chris Badgett: [00:01:20] as a learner, as a teacher?
Bridget Willard: [00:01:22] Both if you could to part that question, cause I know you’re both.
Chris Badgett: [00:01:26] Yeah. So the, the way I look at it is that they were kind of transitioning out of the information age into the integration age.
And that includes integrating information, boiling it down, getting past overwhelm. And. Honoring the limited lifespan we have and attention we have. So the old model of education is really around getting access to the best information. The new model is about getting results efficiently and going direct as the shortest path possible to the ideal outcome.
Whether that’s, like you mentioned SEO, if you want a high ranking website, it’s not about the most information from the. I mean from the best people is cool, but it’s about action and results as much as it is relevant, curated, targeted, helpful information that works in challenging circumstances for, you know, different personality types and everything.
There’s a lot I could go into, but, the way you get past overwhelm is by learning from somebody who acknowledges that that’s the current state and is going to get you early wins results quickly. And is there to support you because it’s not just about the information, it’s about the support of your learning journey.
Bridget Willard: [00:02:45] Oh, I didn’t think about it like that.
Chris Badgett: [00:02:53] Why is masterclass $15 a month? We learned from the best in the world, but can we talk to Steve Martin when people aren’t laughing at our jokes? If we’re in a negotiation, can we talk to Chris Voss about how to negotiate better? No, we can’t. We’ve got great information, but we have no, no actual support or personalization.
Bridget Willard: [00:03:16] So this is why people have moved to the coaching model.
Chris Badgett: [00:03:21] Absolutely. You know, I, as much as I, coaching is hot, you know, people say high ticket, sometimes it’s got a little bit internet marketing, a little bit Lambo, a little bit. you know, sometimes it’s, it has a bad rap, but real coaching, whether that’s business coaching, life coaching, relationship coaching, it’s about fidelity.
Like it’s about access to the expert. It’s not just about the information. The information is just a small part of the support required for a learning journey. Some outcomes are small, like, I’m going to help you. I don’t, I’m like, there’s small outcomes, and then there’s like transformation. Not everything has to be like this, you know, butterfly arising from the Chrysalis transformation, but somehow comes with just a little win.
Like, yeah, I just. I’m trying to get something that’s like a mini transformation or mini results. So it’s about the importance and the value of that, that result or transformation. And then the what’s required to get there. And yet there has to be a right fit, right learner fit for the right coach or teacher.
if we take our focus not off of making the most money with our course or whatever, and it’s really about that fit and almost guaranteed results. That’s the, that’s the new reality. That’s why coaching is so huge. And, yeah, it’s not, it’s more than content.
Bridget Willard: [00:04:42] Oh man, I have so much in my head right now.
I’m telling you. So here’s the thing though, Jason, you know that I’m super concise. I’m like, dude, do three, four, 10 and then just get to work. Like, just start doing it. Right? And so, you know, Mel Robbins has made millions of dollars by saying. Just count down one, two, three. Okay, now I’m going to the gym.
And there was something about it that works into your brain and like, you know, there’s people that have all these courses on how to prepare your content and my, and like pages and pages and pages and pages and mine. My ebook is eight pages and I’m like, look, I don’t sell fluff. Here’s what you need to do.
Go do it. Like, stop wasting your time reading something. Start working. So it’s funny, Jason and Chris, because I forgot. Okay. That other part. Of like the guidance, because when I do train people, they’re always sending me, Oh my gosh, I did this. And I’m like,
you know, because that’s my natural personality. But I didn’t think of it as far as the. Mark. Isn’t that dumb? That’s funny. Like, Whoa.
Jason Tucker: [00:06:04] We got a bunch of people. We’ve got a bunch of people in the chat sing good stuff. I just wanted to throw these up on the screen so they know that we’re actually looking here. So they go out. Adam silver is watching us twice. I don’t know how that works, but good job on you Adam. So, so the, the overwhelm part.
I recently went through and did a course of, doing, G suite admin. I needed to go through and get all the G suite admin stuff, which is, you know, Google’s backend of being able to run your domain through it and make sure all your emails working correctly, your Google drive, you know, the shared drives, like all those things.
And provisioning and setting up a, you know, different devices and hardware and all sorts of things like that. And, it tells me, it’s like, you’re going to have a about eight months to go through this thing. And I was using a system called Coursera, and I was like, okay, well, eight months to go through this.
And so I started going through it and I’m starting to realize that I’d say about 75% of it, I already knew. And I was just blasting through it. It’s like, okay, listen to the guy talk. Okay, I don’t have to go through any of the workshop stuff. I’m just going to get this thing knocked out, but. Is that the right approach to it?
If you’re overwhelmed, if you feel that you’re overwhelmed at this, is that the right approach to try to blast through this thing and then come to find out you really didn’t learn anything? Or, or what Chris, like how should people be approaching this, this over this being overwhelmed of having all these different, courses being thrown at them?
Chris Badgett: [00:07:34] Well, there’s leadership on both sides. There’s the instructor, and then there’s the learner. What’s the result you’re trying to get by doing a G suite admin course besides understanding like what’s the result you’re going for? I’m just asking. So for me,
Jason Tucker: [00:07:47] it’s, for me, it’s for my job. Yeah. Like I, it was, it wasn’t a requirement, but it was one of those things that I can say like, look, I have a certification behind this, or I have some type of certificate, or I have, this now shows up on my LinkedIn, leave me alone.
Like that sort of thing. So, but it, yeah, I see where you’re going with that. It’s like, if that’s my result, then you’re just trying to get to that finish line as fast as possible. And that’s it.
Chris Badgett: [00:08:11] Yeah. And there’s also like to reduce the overwhelm in that situation. If the creator of that course were to do some personalization, like in lesson one and be like, which are you struggling with?
And if you already have like, yeah, I got email, I’ve got like Google docs, but I’m not that good with Google sheets or whatever. Like, then it becomes a recommendation engine. The mistake that people make is, it’s about, Course completion rates, right? A hundred percent Jason doesn’t need a hundred percent completion of that course because he’s already got 80% in the bag.
He needs a 20 he’s missing, and that’s that. That requires personalization. Like some of the best coaches I know you go inside of their program and they have like. It’s like a honey hole of just shiny object syndrome, but the best coach is what they’re going to do is like, I want you to ignore it. Ignore the stockpile.
Let’s jump on a call. Let’s have a strategic growth session and find out what your biggest challenges and your biggest opportunities are. And then when we get into that, I’m only going to recommend a few trainings out of this like vault. That are the most relevant for you that are going to get you to the result or in the direction of your results the fastest.
so that’s, that’s one thing. Another thing I just want to say is the problem here is. Is when you design around your expertise in the information and not the learning journey and the result of the person, once you end up with these like giant, I call them, resource courses, like giant courses that are extremely dangerous and get abandoned a lot.
unless you, you can still, I’m not saying they’re bad, but if you introduce that kind of like. Consulting on the front end of it to like personalize the path through that, that can help, resolve that issue. But there’s also the issue of what’s called spiral learning. I learned this from an instructional designer.
This is where like, like if I’m like the guru and I’m just going to dump everything I know about Google apps and I’m building a giant course because it’s about me and my knowledge and emptying my brain, that’s very different from. All right, I’m going to get somebody in here and first we’re going to learn how to ride the bike with training wheels on a tricycle, and then we’re going to keep going around and this is how you’d be safe in the driveway.
This is how you be safe in your neighborhood. That’s how you be safe, like getting out under the bigger road, so you keep going around. The mistake we make is that we think like it’s a pie and we’re going to just do everything under the sun in this piece, and then we’re going to just. Abandoned that go to this piece.
What we’re missing is we’re not, it’s not all working together and you’re doing the spiral around it as knowledge, like bridges, talking about SEO. If we’re going to talk about SEO, I, that’s a perfect example of a category where let’s do the little loop first and then do it again and do it again. And, and on the front end of that, if there was some kind of, it can be automated.
It doesn’t have to be a consulting call
Bridget Willard: [00:11:23] test out of it.
Chris Badgett: [00:11:25] Yeah. Like where maybe you don’t need to start at the center of the spiral because you already know a lot about SEO and marketing your book. Maybe you should start like over here, like 30 40 50%. So yeah,
Bridget Willard: [00:11:38] being able to test out, it would have saved me so much money.
My college career,
Jason Tucker: [00:11:44] but when you don’t know the stuff, when you don’t know this stuff, that’s when like, like for instance, we got a comment here talking about practical environment learning and saying that, you know, I’m, you know, going to learn something. It’s easier to do it. In production or in a production like environment, then to try to learn it, where they’re just explaining it to you.
Like for me, especially with that course that I was doing, the part that was the toughest was the fact that if you try and be someone who is trying to blast through it is that there were labs and the labs were smart in that it was testing to make sure you actually completed the pieces within the lab.
So, For that. It’s like, okay, well you’re being forced to actually learn this stuff. And it was good cause it was reinforcement. It wasn’t, it wasn’t something where they’re just throwing it at you and going like, okay, here you
Chris Badgett: [00:12:26] go. Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:12:28] So I totally agree with him. You know, with them it’s like, yeah, I want to have that practical environment.
And I think that’s where you’re, you’re talking about if you can figure out if the, if those people need that environment to, kind of customize it. You know, to their liking. Chris, what about, what about the people that are building courses? How are you, you know, instructing them to not, especially in this time, in, in, in this day and age right now, it’s like, how do you, how do you tell them to like, don’t overwhelm their people?
Like, don’t like, here’s five courses, you know, you need to do all of them. Like how do you not get, you know, how do you get them to not be so overwhelmed or overwhelming? They’re their own customer base.
Chris Badgett: [00:13:07] Well, if you’re a do it yourself course creator, or, I think this answer is also important. If you’re a WordPress freelancer or agency owner and you’re helping advise your client as cause they’re going to decline, is going to come and they’ve been sold an idea about like a membership site and all this vault and content forever kind of thing.
Like it’s a very important thing to look at. And what it is is there’s a great book, by Donald Miller StoryBrand. It’s a, it’s a book about where you put your customer, not you, at the center of your business, and you be a guide, not the guru. And if we are a guide, so it’s, it’s a great just general marketing book around that principle.
But for course, creators specifically, or if you’re advising a course creator or somebody who wants to build a membership site. we want to help in the same way as a freelancer or agency owner, we’re guiding our client. They’re the hero, not us. We need to make them successful. We need to make them not overwhelmed.
We need to set them up for success in terms of getting us the content and not just complain about content delivery delays. How do we get around the spiral one time to be like, all right, I just need your bio and your portrait for your about page. Like and train the content delivery before we get into like, Hey, here’s a site map of a hundred content pieces I need.
I need that by in two weeks or whatever. So I’m going off on a little bit of tangent there, but it has to do with beginning with the end in mind. And that’s really like designing around the learning journey, designing around the result, designing along, doing the work upfront for customer avatar, learner avatar.
Who’s this for? Is this for beginners, intermediate, advanced, or all levels. I mean, we can do that, but let’s have an honest conversation around that. And if you prioritize designing around the perfect learning journey for the ideal customer profile, or learner profile, that’s more important than like brain dumping your 30 years of career experience in X field into like membership site.
And you’ll optimize for the learning journey, not you being a guru with the definitive one stop shop or whatever. And that’s very actually the opposite of overwhelming. It’s actually quite relaxing cause then we do, we think of things like, well, Oh, I might actually bring in this other expert on this topic, into my platform, into my membership to help at this stage for this learner.
They’re actually a little better. Than me at this cause they focused on that piece, whatever it is, Facebook, advertise it, whatever the topic is, and that’s relaxing. It’s less overwhelming. Like I’m going to bring in the best in the world to teach this part and what’s in it for them. Like they get exposure to this audience, whatever.
And so it’s about the learner. It’s not about the guru, it’s like Yoda, the Yoda, not Luke Skywalker, right. We’re doing that with clients and our clients can do that with their learner.
Bridget Willard: [00:16:11] Yeah. I mean, that’s the way you teach. That’s. Like you know that
Jason Tucker: [00:16:20] Bridget, you and I, one of
Bridget Willard: [00:16:21] my favorite guests, because you say all these things I know, but I haven’t thought about for years, because
Chris Badgett: [00:16:27] you can’t see a label inside the bottle.
Like it’s a. We’re all guilty as experts.
Bridget Willard: [00:16:34] Yeah. And I’m like, I’m not taking it personally, just because, but that is why my handle is YouTube can be a guru. Anybody can learn this. It’s not that art, because you have all of the social skills, which have nothing to do with the technology. Right. So, so if I’m understanding you correctly.
Kind of in one sentence without like all the, after all energy anthropology more from more phising or whatever.
Jason Tucker: [00:17:04] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:17:06] I mean, I’m, I’m into this, I’ve totally like, Oh my God, I’m changing things on my business today. Okay, so here’s the thing. In order to reduce overwhelm, you need as a course creator. To be accessible during the learning
Chris Badgett: [00:17:26] journey.
Bridget Willard: [00:17:29] Handholding.
Chris Badgett: [00:17:30] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:17:31] It works in teaching. They call it guided practice. So you teach them something and then you sit next to them and you have them do it and you’re like, okay, well, I’m just going to watch you do it. And then
Chris Badgett: [00:17:44] no one, one step in the spiral. The easiest way to do that add a weekly office hour call that you don’t have to prepare for, and they just show up with questions.
Jason Tucker: [00:17:53] Yeah, yeah. I
Chris Badgett: [00:17:57] ended up being, it’s a group format so it can scale, like, okay, if you have a lot of people that follow you or in the program, it’s still just one hour on your calendar.
Bridget Willard: [00:18:05] Yeah,
Jason Tucker: [00:18:07] yeah. You have the, you have the, the burden of teaching the teachers. Yeah. For at lifter LMS and, and having those weekly calls where you can get those folks in there to discuss this stuff with them.
I can totally see how that is super beneficial to them. for the people that are just the learners, they’re going to have those questions that they’re going to, it’s like, please help me out with this. Like I, and hopefully the people, the teachers are taking those questions into account so they can go back and refine.
Various parts within their course to be able to make sure that essentially they’re not having as many of those people coming back, asking the same questions over and over again. Obviously you have a sticking point there and you’ve got to go fix it. So yeah, the, I like that. I like, that’s what you guys do over there and how you’re, it’s like, Hey, come on in.
Let’s discuss this. Let’s kind of, let’s go through and talk about
Chris Badgett: [00:19:01] this. Yeah, and that’s it. Just to be clear, what that is is electrical mess. I have a software company, but I practice what I preach. I’ve heard expert or the WordPress professional that’s building the site for the expert at the center of my business.
Do they need a WordPress LMS? Yes. Do they also need like strata technical support? Yes. That’s most of us software companies do. Do they need strategy support? Do they need community? Do they need templates? Do they need access to other ideas and experts, like through our webinar series? So now surrounding the customer with support, not just software.
And that’s the key. That’s the same for doing training. I mean, it’s right. Content is just one piece of the pie. Yeah. Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:19:47] Cause you have to execute. If you’re not executing, why are you learning? And this is something I find all the time when I’m consulting, cause social media, when I’m consulting, it’s like half, maybe a third learning, a third psychology and a third like, well put your tennis shoes on and go, wow.
So, I mean, that’s how do you, well, I mean, I know what I do, but how do you recommend people, of course, creators, sorry. How do you recommend course creators help their learners overcome fear of
Chris Badgett: [00:20:29] doing? Yeah. Yeah. Well, first is to design a program that combines three things, learn, do, teach. That’s the, that’s what makes learning happen.
As we learned something, I learned something from you, Bridget, about social media. Then I do it. And you actually have an assignment in your course, like go create a list. And then when I come to the point where it makes sense for me to teach that strategy to somebody else, I’ve really locked in that skill or that learning thing.
so that’s getting like, it’s up to like lesson one, day one. We want to train people or design programs or help our clients see that they need to design around people taking action. That’s why we built the lifter LMS assignments add on, and there’s a, there’s an assignment type in there called a task list.
So like you create a lesson like that. That’s my favorite example actually, is you create a lesson, video content. This is this one little important step before you can go to the next lesson. There’s an assignment and there’s. Task lists that you have designed in your training to like go create a list in Twitter to start collecting your ideal whatever, and there’s, they have to check it off and yeah, they could lie or whatever and just do it and move on.
But like, at least the course creator has designed action in addition to content. And then the next, the next layer is to design support and community and things like that to even further support the process. But it’s minimal action. It’s like, yeah, the momentum. Like if you were to tell me like, all right, you need like these 17 lists and you’re good to go.
Like no, like one list, like start with one list or whatever. Yeah, like minimal is that first part in the spiral. Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:22:24] Yeah. When I was talking to Jen and Jason about this topic, I was like, so in the travel industry, we have these courses all the time, and that year I was working with the travel company. I was taking a trying to take, cause she would be like, take these classes.
Then you get all these perks, right? That was the result. Like you can win a trip to Australia or you get free nights at Marriott or whatever. And so you start doing it like my favorite one was from Australia board of tourism because it was super interesting. There’d be a video and then there’ll be questions.
What is this? What is this? What is this? And so because it was like. A minute or two questions, a minute or two questions. Text, texts, questions, questions. You felt like that you felt like you were flying through it. It felt like it was fast instead of won’t want. Whoa. Wow. It’s
Chris Badgett: [00:23:16] not passive. It’s active. Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:23:21] So I think that they did what you were saying is like they were chunking it up. They’re making it more like hors d’oeuvres unless like a five course meal.
Chris Badgett: [00:23:31] Yeah. Ideally you get an early win too. Like what’s a, what’s an example of a marketing win? Like, I don’t know, like getting some followers or getting a lead of some kind or your some opt-ins for something.
Yeah. Like as much as you can front load some early small wins is like super important because then that brings motivation, which helps people have the desire to keep going.
Bridget Willard: [00:23:57] So in, delivering happiness, which actually ironically made me cry and why I changed my career. From construction. Tony Shay, the CEO of Zappos, was talking about how they decided to build this culture at their company.
And they have programs inside of the company in order for people to be promoted to a product buyer for examples, what he talked about, and it used to be that it was an 18 month program and then, after the 18 months ago, raise. And they get this promotion, but people are finishing the program. So he chunked it up.
I think it was three months intervals and it every, it was like progress payments and construction, but at every interval you got that, that percentage of the race.
Chris Badgett: [00:24:49] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:24:50] So what motivated you to keep going? Because it didn’t feel like it was so far away. So, some of that could be. You know, involved like many certificates, like maybe Australia could have broken it up more like, and now you’re eligible to blah, blah, get a koala plush toy or some shit like that.
Instead of having to do this whole thing before you can maybe win a week. I don’t care. I just, you can’t go to Australia for a week. You gotta be there for three to five weeks. It’s a continent.
Chris Badgett: [00:25:24] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:25:25] Anyway.
Jason Tucker: [00:25:26] Yeah. So how, how do you, how do you, how do you market this? Like how do you take the, the, the idea that this course is not going to be super hard.
This course is not going to make it so that you’re, you’re not going to finish. Like, is it showing success rates or is it showing, you know, proof of completion? Or is it like, what is it, how do you, how do you get those folks, you know, those learners or potential learners to be, you know, to be interested in it?
Chris Badgett: [00:25:58] Well, this would probably be my, if I only had like one minute to tell somebody the secret to marketing, it’s right here, which is. The fundamental thing that somebody who is exposed to your offer is asking themselves inside their head is, will it work for me when I first hit your website, they have five seconds.
Like, is this for me? Like, is this for me? And then they read the headline, and then the important part here is that it, it’s the result that people want. And if you can be crystal clear about the result that people want, that’s why I was asking you like, well, why do you. Why do you need this Google training?
It’s more like that. Do I, do I need it? Is it mandatory? Is it, the result is very important. So yeah, easy. Yeah. Easy sells. But people do hard things too. If the, the result is like super important to them and maybe some things are just, is no easy way or whatever. Like if I’m going to take a course on how to, or if I’m going to join a program that’s going to help me do an expedition to the South pole, I know it’s going to be hard, but if I want that result, I’ll do it.
I’ll do it. So
Bridget Willard: [00:27:15] I’m sorry. That just made me think of this. Kind of meme of the motivation and it had that mountain. Everybody hikes. I keep saying Kilimanjaro in my head. Everest. Yeah. And it said Mount Everest is full of skeletons of people who are motivated
to be not as suicidal. So like we, we knew about that and construction, we’d be like, okay, well we want to be a low bidder, but we don’t want to be a suicide bitter because then money and yeah. So you want to be. You know, you want to have an achievable goal. Well, it goes back to the smart thing, smart, measurable, whatever, blah, and markers always love these acronyms that tell you all this stuff that just makes sense.
Baby steps. I’m sailing, I’m sailing. You know, like, so, but you can’t do the baby step if you don’t understand the learner. And I love this because it, it just brings me back to that. Science course I had to take for teachers, which was so dumb because she had to teach yet, but I said, Oh my gosh, this is so easy.
Why can’t I test out of this? Like I took AP chemistry when I had the flu and passed. This is stupid and so and so goes, Oh, Bridget, you’re going to have a really hard time teaching math and science and I go, why? That’s what I’m good at. That’s why because you don’t you, this is what he said to me. You won’t get why they don’t get it enough.
Then next year in student teaching, I had second grade remedial math group where you had to teach time to people who see clocks. As numbers, not as a circle, which is a pie. Okay? This is a big
Chris Badgett: [00:29:23] difference,
Bridget Willard: [00:29:25] right? I mean, this is, God. This is 20 years ago now. It’s still, you know, so I racked my brain. I was so frustrated until I said, okay, multiple intelligences.
Some people like to learn by moving and doing and kinetic. They want to touch stuff. So guess what? We became the clock. I got cardboard sticks. One stick was small. Most stick was long. Those two people sat in the middle. Yeah. Everybody else sat around and, and they just, they had to say it. So if I was the 12 and somebody else was a two and the little hand point of the two, the person said two and then I had to say, Oh, clock.
Right. And then they got it. But the thing is that we do make courses on things we’re good at, but because we’re good at, we were blind.
Chris Badgett: [00:30:21] Yeah. Yeah. I
Bridget Willard: [00:30:23] should just memory lane over here. I just feel right now.
Jason Tucker: [00:30:29] Well in the, in the, I’ll bring something in the chat that might be able to help us a little bit.
So, a lot of people are doing training just to make their LinkedIn profiles look good, which is one of the things that I was talking about. waste of effort in most cases. that should be the motivation you need to start with a tangible benefit. The tangible benefit for me was the fact that I wanted to get to the harder part.
The next level it, it’s like, ah, prerequisites, fine. Okay, here’s this prerequisite. I got this done. Okay, I know how to use, you know, Google sheets now. Cool. But now I need to do this next piece. I need to know how to do, you know, Google apps script, so I can actually start writing applications in Google sheets and that sort of thing.
There’s a, you know, the levels that you have to go through in order to get there. When, when you’re marketing a course like, like these, how do you, how would you show somebody like, okay, you gotta go through this stuff so we at least know what you, you know, so that way we’re not having to go back and explain to you, this is Google sheets.
Here’s how you do this, or here’s how to edit a blog post, or here’s how to, you know, it’s like, get them through all of the easy stuff to get them to the hard stuff. How do you, how do you approach that when you’re kind of setting up your courses so that people understand, you know, I want you to know this stuff before you can actually get to this next level up.
Chris Badgett: [00:31:46] Well, at first, like the guide metaphor comes into play here in that it’s good to have a map. And so if people know the process you’re following, like the framework and courses and we’ll call them modules or sections. Like, alright. Module one or section one, we’re going to get the fundamentals. Module two, we’re going to do this other, we’re going to get this milestone.
Like you reverse engineer from the result, the milestones,
Jason Tucker: [00:32:14] right? That
Chris Badgett: [00:32:15] are like the wins along the way are the core competencies and then the lessons underneath those are doing whatever it takes to get to that milestone.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:24] games do this.
Chris Badgett: [00:32:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gaming is, and here’s what, here’s what some that’s exploding in the marketing world right now.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:33] We literally, with the map,
Chris Badgett: [00:32:35] yeah. I recommend course creators to D abstract, defy the experts curse, which is what you were talking about, Bridget, is to actually visually create that map and like make it so that there’s like steps and in the box there’s something that has to happen. And, like for us, it lifter LMS, I help course creators create launch and scale.
All right? In order to create, we need to have a target market. In order to have a, we need to have a, a result we’re designing the program for. We need to build an outline and then you can see me start to build a process of what this user needs to go through. Then tell him that, show him that like, Hey, this is a process.
This is how we help you create launch to scale. They can’t. Some people are like, I don’t want to give that away. That’s my secret sauce. I’m saying just give it away all day long. It helps people buy, it helps them understand what’s inside the box. It helps them know the steps. And your, to your question, Jason, about like prerequisites, one of the things that’s exploding in marketing right now is what are called challenge funnels.
And why are they explode? Why is it, why are challenged funnels exploding? Well, what’s the challenge? The challenge is designed around a result and a challenge is time bound. So, you know, there could be like a 30 day challenge, a 90 day challenge, a four day challenge, whatever it is, health, wealth, relationships, whatever.
There’s. Challenge. Challenges and challenges have steps like, Hey, it’s day two, we’re going to do this is day three, we’re going to do this. and there’s different types of challenges, but something that challenges have, and you can use a core structure to build a challenge. If you want to build out what I recommend, go get an LMS tool and don’t think of a course.
It’s just the course of course can be lots of things. It could be a challenge. You can use the same, vehicle to build a challenge funnel. And. There’s something called pre-training. So, which is the, like what you need to have in place to start the challenge. Okay. And if you think about that, maybe some people already have that pre-training work done and you’re like, yeah, I don’t need that.
Alright, got it. Got it, got it. Oh yeah. I better get that. It’s just like when you’re a kid and the teacher gave you that like, list of. Stuff to show up to summer camp with or whatever, or to school. but that way everybody starts at the same place in the course, and it’s super efficient. Yeah. There’s going to be different aisles and everything.
But your question around how do I get how to do that, it’s more about, to me, the problem is already there, which is. it’s been designed to be too general. It’s not for a specific person. A really well designed program is super specific. And if somebody has prerequisite to do before they get at it, that would be a different course.
Yeah. so, and
Bridget Willard: [00:35:28] the chat, Abby shakes saying that it’s just like what Duolingo is doing it Duolingo. Is so awesome. Like I’m still doing my German and I love it. You kind of compete with other people and it sends you a little notification that says, I miss you. Or if you don’t check in for a couple of days, you’ll say, well, these notifications don’t be, don’t seem to be working.
We’ll pause it. You know, you can test out. You could test out on Duolingo
Jason Tucker: [00:36:03] really. So if you already know Spanish and you’re wanting to do the harder version of Spanish, you can just blast through all of that part of it, get to the part that you need to, and then start learning that from there. That’s
Bridget Willard: [00:36:15] cool.
And it knows what mistakes you make. So it starts kind of like I’m dating myself, but, the typing, remember that typing program. It was somebody’s name. I took typing an actual school,
Jason Tucker: [00:36:30] maybe
Bridget Willard: [00:36:31] speaking. Yes,
maybe speaking. I taught that when I was teaching. And they get, they go through and they know where you’re failing. So it’s things like that are kind of easy, where they’re getting your actual physical input or like that device that makes you sit up. But the sham is saying a lot of people I know in the corporate world rushed through training courses to achieve a certificate, but in reality, I’ve learned nothing.
Great examples, ad-words qualifications, pointless unless you actually run an ad. Lives compete.
Chris Badgett: [00:37:11] I mean, the thing I just want to add there is there’s a difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. So if your boss is making you take a course that’s very different from intrinsic, where you’re just compelled and motivated, like, Oh, I really want to learn German versus I have to learn German to keep my job.
So that’s part of designing a program is like, well, what, which one are we doing? And ideally, even if it’s a required thing, you should still design motivation into it so that you can transition it over to something they actually are motivated to do. And not just, they’re just gonna like. Any possibility to fake it and get through it as fast as possible is not ideal.
Like they want to do the work and do the learning and apply it.
Jason Tucker: [00:37:56] Well, apparently a Shama didn’t work. I totally get it.
Bridget Willard: [00:38:04] Oh my gosh. This is, wow. So much good information. So basically to market it, you have to use your unique selling position and say what is in for them, which is stuff we should already know as people who build websites, but we forget all the time.
Jason Tucker: [00:38:28] We could talk about streaks for a minute, some way of, of, of that coal, carrot and stick type of thing. the, the stick being, you have to reset your streak down to zero, and that, that carrot is that it feels really good to keep that motivation going. Right, Chris? I mean, you got that sort of thing happening
Chris Badgett: [00:38:46] that’s gamification.
yeah. Yeah, it’s motivating. It’s motivating when done well and, and, you know, there’s all these like, psychological triggers that you can design in, and of course you want to do it ethically, make it ethically addicting, right? It goes back to the fundamentals of like, as a marketer, as an instructional designer, as a teacher, if you really believe in the result that you deliver, and you know who your ideal person is.
Of course, make it addicting, help them get the result faster and stick with the program. That’s totally do it. It’s a good thing. When I
Bridget Willard: [00:39:22] train people on Twitter, they love DME there. Their stats.
Chris Badgett: [00:39:27] Yeah. I’m
Bridget Willard: [00:39:27] like, cause it’s gonna change man. And they’re like, I’ll take it. Well, I go, okay, I double dog, dare you. I double dog dare you to do it my way for two weeks.
Chris Badgett: [00:39:43] accountability. That’s accountability where you’re talking about there, which is something that’s important as well. And that’s one thing a coach does, is they hold you accountable. Like humans are learning machines. And when you add that social dynamic and like the, the mentor dynamic and you add accountability, I mean, we’re literally designed for that.
When we, it’s just part of our psychology and that’s the social learning components, which is another aspect. But people, what I want to say, which I’ve found in my time, this industry, is that the social stuff, that whole thing where people say they come for the content, they stay for the community or the coaching or whatever.
the community and the coaching are very important. And yeah, it might help you sell a little bit, but most of the appreciation of that. Comes after they have tried it out inside your program. So that’s where you kind of sell them what they want, but you give them what they need. They, there’s a disconnect like what a learner wants and what a coach or a mentor knows.
It’s you have to speak their language and what they think they want. And the
Jason Tucker: [00:40:50] chat, Beth asks, are certificates of motivator and should they be a motivator or is there other things that you can do?
Chris Badgett: [00:40:57] I love this question. yeah. Certificates can definitely be a motivator. It goes back to like, is it something I want or is it something I have to do?
So there’s that kind of variable there. the other thing is I’m a big fan of making up fake certificates. And what I mean by that is course creators, teachers, entrepreneurs are insanely creative people. So. If you’re a course creator or you have one as a client who’s just like a brilliant person in some kind of niche that’s like best in the world, stuff they can create.
Like they can just invent stuff like, like if I was going to do. Like if go watch the other episode we did with Bridget and Jason about my background, but I’m kind of like a, I live on an organic farm, homeschool my kids. We grow a lot of our own food. We’re very self-reliant. If I was going to create a like, self-reliance certification, live off the land, digital like entrepreneur certificate, There’s a certain type of person like, so certificates are more for to show somebody else that you’ve done something. So, but if I was going to do it, like let’s say, it’s where my brain goes to, cause this isn’t the best example. But if I was like, I would invent that certificate. Yeah, and I would actually like, I could see somebody actually using that to find a values match in a relationship, like in a dating example.
But if Chris was teaching like a marketing course, that might help somebody get a job. Like if another WordPress product company, if you’re like, Oh, I saw I took, you know, Chris Paget’s WordPress product marketing course, I’m certified. I invented that out of thin air, like Chris badges certificate, but like some other WordPress product company like, Oh, well, he’s learned from somebody that I know of.
That person. It’s the same thing as having the Harvard certificate on the wall, right? It’s more modern where it’s. Learning is more distributed. It’s not just like siloed in the ivory tower and
Bridget Willard: [00:43:03] less significantly less expensive. So we only have a few minutes left before the tool or tip of the week. So I’m wondering like if you have a tip, okay, so this person has to take this class.
It’s not intrinsic. The, the instructor has not created access to support and community.
Chris Badgett: [00:43:23] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:43:24] They’re still overwhelmed. How do we help that person overcome that? The
Chris Badgett: [00:43:30] learner or the teacher?
Bridget Willard: [00:43:31] The learner.
Chris Badgett: [00:43:33] I mean, you can’t like wish it away like the, the, the leader, like the TA instructor or the person who’s choosing the program that they go through.
Like, this is where quality matters. Like there’s not much you can do to just make something that sucks. Like besides choose something else or redesign it with a different mindset.
I mean, this is why like, it’s so funny because in this industry, like if I was going to like, there’s so many WordPress LMS niches, I’d love to see the freelancers and the agency owners focus. Like just business coaching alone is a huge market. just doing like, mandate the kind of courses you’re talking about, the mandatory, it sucks.
Like I just got like. Yeah, I was just put in jail for this reason. I have to take this thing that’s a totally different market. And we had, you know, you can configure the platform different ways for that, but
Bridget Willard: [00:44:31] they go get drunk after their AA class.
Chris Badgett: [00:44:36] Yeah. I mean,
Bridget Willard: [00:44:38] dating apps, but that’s another blog post. This
Chris Badgett: [00:44:41] is what I would do. This is what I do. Let’s lose the, let’s use the DUI training courses. Somebody has to take. What I’m saying is if it sucks, it’s just going to keep sucking. But if I actually wanted to make, a DUI training course, it’s gonna like they’re going to go into lesson one and then they’re going to watch every minute of it and love it.
I’m going to use something, I’m going to redesign it with edutainment in mind. I’m going to make it entertaining. And I’m on a truly try to help unlock some new mental models in that learner’s mind that like, dude, driving around drunk is a bad idea. I’m going to make you want to, I’m going to make you like addicted to this thing and you’re going to think.
This is the funniest thing you’ve ever seen. And then all of a sudden now people can’t wait to take the course, but you have to redesign the learning experience, right?
Jason Tucker: [00:45:29] These are those driver’s ed courses, and they would do comedy courses. And that was a huge thing in Southern California was this idea of like, Oh, I just got a, you know, I just got a speeding ticket and now I have to go take a course.
And the courses come, some comedian or. Maybe a up and coming comedians is probably not gonna be all that great, but they’re gonna sit there and you know, try to help you out by explaining to you how to like actually do, you know, how to drive or whatever in a, in a more funny manner. So I can totally back that, Chris,
Bridget Willard: [00:45:57] before we do our tip, sham says, could I get a certificate to get a bed?
And in all seriousness, I started making my bed as soon as I get up. It made a big difference in how I approached the day. That’s your certificate. Make your bed.
Jason Tucker: [00:46:15] Yup. Yup.
Bridget Willard: [00:46:17] We’re doing them like walk in my Mark next to my room. I’m like, Oh, that’s really nice bedroom. It doesn’t take that long. So a full, I got a floor on purpose.
Super easy to make.
Tool or Tip of the week.
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I do want to let you know that with, With our Tool or tip the week I’ve had people ask us about our tool or tip of the week and they ask us like, is the ad before the toilet tip of the week, the only ad that’s happening in this?
Or is it the thing that you guys were talking about the ads? And I want to let you know right here and right now, the stuff that we share on our Tool or tip of the week are things that. We ourselves are actually using, and we found these ourselves and we’re actually putting them out there. I had people, they’re like, Oh, so you’re getting paid to like talk about some application or something.
I was like, no, no, no, no.
Bridget Willard: [00:47:34] Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:47:34] I’ve used cloudways for hosting, and also I use all these products that we’re talking about today. So product services, books, whatever it is that we’re talking about. So I just wanted to preface that just so you knew what was going on there. And just so everyone’s, you know, familiar that we’re not, we’re not sitting here.
And the FCC?.
We’re not pitching, we’re not pitching and pitching and pitching some more. So who wants to go first? Chris? Bridget, let’s talk.
Bridget Willard: [00:48:01] I made a tool. Okay.
Jason Tucker: [00:48:03] You made a tool?
Oh yeah. I’m always making tools. So here’s the thing, y’all aren’t charging enough. I don’t know how to say this any other way. Well, I do. I made a blog post on LinkedIn, and inside that blog post is a Google sheet that you could click on and we’ll ask you to, copy it to your own Google drive so that you can.
Mess around with it. It’s a calculator to find out what your. In house, hourly rate should be based upon how much money you make and how many hours you’re willing to work. Cause I had a consultant call with somebody, I don’t really want to work 40 hours, Mike. Then you need to charge more. And so it goes back to, Oh Bridget.
You’re not going to be good at teaching this. I’m like, okay, well people like to futz around with calculators. I know how to use Google sheets. So if you, so that blog post talks about, you know, why do this, why it matters, and then what your in house rate should never be like public. That is for us what it’s called in house rate.
And so like you have to. Know what your overhead is. If people in our industry are constantly saying, charge for your value, charge for your value, and I completely agree with that, but if you think your value is $25 an hour and your cost is $50 an hour, you’re in the red. Red is not good. Red is bad. It’s very, very bad.
Just like our debt clock in. You know, times square. Okay? So you have to know how much it costs for you to breathe oxygen, feed yourself, have internet, have a roof over your head. It doesn’t leak, et cetera, et cetera. Then you need to add some margin. It’s that, and also. The job costing things that I talk about in this.
I think this is super helpful because a lot of people say, Oh yeah, I could do that website in five hours, so you can do the website of five hours. That’s fine. Is it five consecutive hours? Are you going to have five hours without your children or pets or neighbors? Or spouse or mother bugging the crap out of you.
Because if you don’t, then it’s not five hours. It’s five hours for if you’re only working on that. Also, if it’s five hours a day for four days, that’s 20 hours. But do you have 20 consecutive hours to work on that or do you have other things going on? So you need to have a production schedule, and I’m not a project manager.
Okay. This is just a logic. So. So, and that’s the way I think, like, can you actually do this? Because if you don’t, this is what’s going to happen. You’re going to get burnout. You’re gonna not know that you’re at capacity, and then you’re going to be so frustrated. You’re going to resent your clients. But what this does with a combination of time blocking and charging what you’re.
What you should be charging and then adding for what the project is as you bump up your time. Like if you think it’s going to take 20 hours at 10% or 15% to that and really look at your schedule like, can you do that? If you block out your time. And you’ve charged correctly. Then you set your boundaries for your friends, your family, your children, your neighbors.
Like, don’t bug me. I work nine to five and your story, you know, like unless there’s some weird thing going on, I work nine to five. This is what I’m doing. I know I can’t do it. And so you have to block it out. Like if you let people schedule calls with you, then you’ll have to know that you’re going to be maybe interrupted.
You know? So, yeah. I learned this from my late husband. He used to say it. It used to bother me, but it’s really true. The phone doesn’t rule you. It’s a tool. He would go, why didn’t you call me? I called you five times on, doesn’t roll me. I roll a phone. But it’s, and he, he was right about that. So anyway, that’s a screenshot of the actual calculator.
But go in there. If you only want to work 20 hours, and this is real, this is not. include admin or marketing work on your own business. This is actual work that you’re doing. Like me actually building tweets, you actually building a website that that’s those hours. And I talk about, and that’s why it’s a long LinkedIn post and anyone on my website.
So there it is.
Awesome. Good job, Bridget. Chris, what’d you got?
Chris Badgett: [00:52:49] I got a video. I just put it in chat, but there’s a a, I call it the YouTube traffic system, and basically what it is, is it’s a, if I had to do the most specific marketing plan and make three specific YouTube videos that were going to drive leads for my business.
and you could use this as a WordPress freelancer or agency owner as well. This strategy I got asked all the time, like, what if you could only do like one marketing thing that didn’t, isn’t something you had to do forever to create a lead generating system? What would you do. So I, I created that as, I call it, the YouTube traffic system.
And it’s not about becoming a professional YouTuber. It’s about making three very, very specific videos. And I w I walked through that framework and just like we’re talking about in this episode, this is not an overwhelming thing and it should, I’ve designed it to unlock a lot of clarity and results for you and as minimal amount of time as possible.
Jason Tucker: [00:53:55] I’ve learned that, that Chris talks with his hands a lot,
Chris Badgett: [00:54:02] so
Jason Tucker: [00:54:04] I haven’t muted, but I talk with my hands a lot too, so I love it, Chris. No, that’s cool. I’m getting leads from YouTube that that’s, that’s
Chris Badgett: [00:54:14] great. I literally, by the way, as a web designer, a WordPress web designer.
Jason Tucker: [00:54:20] Yeah. I
Chris Badgett: [00:54:21] built my initial lead flow by making YouTube videos. And this is, so I’ve been doing this strategy for 10 years.
Jason Tucker: [00:54:30] Yeah. I’ve
Chris Badgett: [00:54:32] seen what works. I’ve seen what doesn’t. I’ve seen like a lot of time wasting on YouTube, but this, so this is like very targeted. Very specific.
Jason Tucker: [00:54:39] Right. That’s cool. Yeah. That’s cool. My, my actually relates a little bit to that as well, which, I’ve been, I’ve been using a, a new tool and I’ve kind of gone through these, if you watch the last five or six episodes, I’ve kind of one by one, one up to myself.
and, how do get good transcriptions out of, of my videos and also how to get those transcriptions and in a way that I can use on my website. And, and that sort of thing. So I’ve been playing around with this new, certain new to me service called the script. And what the script does is it gives you, and there’s like a video on here where they’re, they’re kind of explaining it, but it has this, it’s this idea that you can edit your, edit your podcasts at, at your videos, using the words that are being said.
So for instance, if I said, well. And I wanted to edit that. I can just go in there and find the, well and ah, and erase them out of it. And it actually races it out of the video as well. So I
Bridget Willard: [00:55:37] use the words of the transcript. It edits the audio. It sure
Jason Tucker: [00:55:41] does. Wow.
Chris Badgett: [00:55:43] Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:55:43] So if it’s, if you’re looking here, for instance, this one that this one part where they said the word tech, tech, tech, Tober and maybe tech Tober wasn’t the word that they wanted to use.
You go and you click on the thing on the bottom here where it says like, okay, so first, you know, one of these things and hit delete. It actually removes it from the video and he does a nice clean, jump cut between the two pieces and it makes it so you can edit it. So, yeah, I, I wish these guys were an advertiser and I wish they gave me an affiliate code cause I’m going to be selling a lot of them right now just by mentioning it.
But it’s sweet because they’ll do the transcription for free, or you can pay them $2 a minute for them to do really good transcriptions. You can also edit the transcription yourself. So if it’s like a very technical word that. Isn’t part of the thing that their AI understands. It will actually allow you to update that word and then after a while, remember it and go like, Oh, okay.
I don’t have to ask them over and over again.
Chris Badgett: [00:56:41] Was that $2 a minute? Cover them pulling out on Zenoss. No.
Jason Tucker: [00:56:46] But it, there is a thing on the dropdown that you just say remove filler words and it just takes all your filler words out. So I do that first and just blows out the filler words so they don’t even show up anymore.
Wow. Yeah. And if you’re somebody who has a, either like a stutter or stammer or if you, you know. You say the same word a couple of times before you actually get to what you’re trying to say. You can remove those and it’ll just clean it up as a quick, clean little jump cut. Now, the one piece that’s really nice about this is that when you’re done editing it within their interface, you can download the audio video file, the transcripts, and various file formats and whatever, but it’ll also give you the file format that you need to open it up in your video editor.
So I would take this as your first pass of going through your video editing, and then after that you can download this into final cut or premiere or whatever it is that you’re using, and they give you that file format and it’s already all broken up. One of the things I’ve been playing around with this, just to see if it’s something that I can do, is they’ll actually split it out into multiple tracks, so it will take the Chris Badgett.
Sparks where you’re talking the Jason Tucker parts where I’m talking and the Bridget parts were where she’s talking and break them up into three different tracks. So let’s say that Chris has like a train happening in the background of his video or something. I can actually like adjust his audio individually.
Even though it’s one, one video stream and one audio stream. So yeah. Really cool. It’s, it’s, it’s fairly, you know, inexpensive in that it, they, they charge $10 a month for the producer, which is the one I’m using.
Chris Badgett: [00:58:24] Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:58:24] If you have the
Bridget Willard: [00:58:26] $300,
Jason Tucker: [00:58:27] yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty sweet. Like for, for, $18 a month, which, you know, I’m doing monthly just to test it out for 18 bucks a month.
You can have multiple people using it. And like I said, they have, they have some Fieser feature features in here of a Adobe audition pro tools premiere and final cut. So they’ll take those files, let you download them and do what you want with it. it gives you uncompressed files and yeah, you’re good to go.
So really neat. I’ve been playing around with this with Zapier, so when we’re done recording what we’re recording now, it will show up in Zapier and then send it on its way over to these guys. They’ll do the transcription for us, so yeah. Good stuff. I’m sorry. I’m sorry I’m not making any money off of this and it’s just, you know, go check them out over at dot com but it’s really cool stuff and it’s been, it’s been something that if you’re a podcaster and you want to remove a lot of those tunes and Oz, and you want to do it quickly and easily, this is like the best way to do it.
Wow. So that’s about it. Folks, I want to say thank you very much for all of you, for hanging out with us. We really appreciate it. I have a quick little video to play. Here we go.
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