Skip to content

Smart Marketing Show is no longer in production

Play Video

Okay, so we agree that it’s healthy to have a marketing budget. Now, where’s the best place to spend it? PPC? Instagram? Facebook ads? A copywriter? Ugh. So many choices.

John Locke of joins us this week to discuss how to use Google Analytics to make good marketing decisions.

Be sure to subscribe to his YouTube Channel.

Show Sponsors


Thank you for being a preroll sponsor, ServerPress! ServerPress is the maker of DesktopServer, WPSiteSync, and so much more! Check them out at

Big Orange Heart

Thank you for being mid-roll sponsor! Mental health support for remote workers. It’s our charity’s mission to support and promote positive wellbeing and mental health of the remote working communities. Become part of the supportive community.

Are you looking for brand awareness?

You could be a show sponsor. We think it is a good idea to let people know you’re still in business and supporting your products.

7 Steps to Spend Your Marketing Budget Wisely

  1. Get Familiar with Acquisition Tab in G/A
  2. Set Up Goals
  3. Determine Marketing Budget
  4. Find Out Where Your Customers Are
  5. Give Honest Effort (a Month) to Top 3 Channels
  6. Measure Where Your Customers Come From
  7. Determine Lead Score

Don’t Dilute Your Marketing Efforts

The only way to really know if your marketing efforts are working is to pick two or three things. Then measure. Test. Measure. Test. Rinse & Repeat.

“I wouldn’t focus on too many things all at once, because you’re not going to be able to measure as effectively, and you’re going to dilute your efforts.” John Locke

No Type of Marketing Is Instant

It’s important to remember that there are no first-click leads in marketing. All of your efforts combine to make the lead generation engine work.

“The marketing that you do today will produce results six months from now.” John Locke

Make sure you’re on YouTube and Yelp. These are highly-favored in Google’s SERPs. When it comes to advertising, Facebook Ads are less expensive than Google Ads. Most of the time LinkedIn ads are more expensive than Twitter. Test. Give it a month. See what works. Test another platform.

Marketing Leads by Source

In order to determine the best source of your leads (and where to spend your marketing budget), it is important to measure. You can’t analyze data you don’t collect. Be sure to ask clients where they heard about you. John recommends providing 4-5 sources tops.

Hot Tip: Gravity Forms has a hidden field that will show what page the user was on when they filled out the contact form.

Things like time on page, UTM codes, and coupon or affiliate codes also give an indication of where the best leads came from.

In order to get an accurate picture, however, you may want to create a spreadsheet aggregating data from all sources. What is the lifetime value for any given customer? Where did they come from?

You may get the most leads from Twitter but where do you get the best leads?

Tool or Tip of the Week

This Tool or Tip of the week is brought to you by Cloudways. Is your website slow? Or are you looking for a reliable host for your WordPress projects?

Whether it’s an existing website or a project on your drawing board, Cloudways offers a hosting environment with all the features you need to succeed online.

Cloudways is optimized for speed and delivers outstanding performance and security, all supported by 24/7/365 support by expert cloud engineers.

It is an ideal platform for WordPress projects because of the choice of FIVE cloud providers including AWS, Google Cloud, Linode, DigitalOcean, and Linode. The best part – your managed server and WordPress websites are ready in a few minutes.

Once the app is up and running, you can add more power to your business operations, thanks to exciting features such as free SSL certificates, CloudwaysCDN, automated and on-demand app/server backups, and custom-built Teams features to onboard distributed team members.

Cloudways extends your in-house team and takes care of all server management issues, and lets you focus on building amazing websites for your online businesses.

If you like what you have heard, start with a 3-day free trial of Cloudways now!

John recommends reading this article “How Much Should You Budget to Spend on Marketing in 2020?You should spend 6-7% of revenue on marketing.

Jason recommends Google Campaign URL Builder.

Bridget recommends the book “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck.” It’s about prioritizing your priorities, not about being apathetic.

Become a Patron and support us on Patreon!

Become a Patron!

Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker 0:03
Hey, what’s up everyone? This is Jason Tucker and this is WordPress Marketing Show, Episode Number 158 spend your marketing budget wisely. Today’s episode is brought to you by ServerPress. makers DesktopServer they make local WordPress development easy check them out at and Big Orange Heart. Check them out over a Big Orange if you heard about them later, in Cloudways web hosting check them out at you can follow us on Patreon and support us over there. Go to I’m Jason Tucker. And this is my friend Bridget Willard. Feel free to follow us on Twitter. Hey, how’s it going? Everyone?

Bridget Willard 0:47
Fabulous. Oh,

Jason Tucker 0:49
awesome. I love that we can just get things started. John Locke. How you doing, man?

John Locke 0:54
I’m doing good.

Jason Tucker 0:56
How are you? doing? going? Good going really good. I want to see if you could take a quick moment and just kind of start us off. Tell us who you are, tell us what you’re about. And then tell us like you’re like the SEO efforts and the things like that, that you’re that you’re doing. So that way we can get a kind of rough idea of who you are as a person and who you are as a as a business owner.

John Locke 1:19
Yeah, fair enough. You like you said, my name is john Locke. I have a little business called lockdown design and SEO. And it started back in the day as just WordPress development. But for the past three years, it’s been focused mostly on SEO and primarily SEO for manufacturing and industrial firms that a little bit of like Home Services thrown in there. So

Jason Tucker 1:49
Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, what got what got you into to that in that niche? Like, what was it that got you into that?

John Locke 1:58
It wasn’t My first attempt at finding a niche, because that was that was one of the things that I was struggling to do, you know, the first like four or five years, because I was doing a lot of work for other agencies, but it just wasn’t getting me like exactly where I wanted to go and I wanted to give myself a raise. So I needed to find some different types of clients. So I thought at first, I was specializing in e commerce and WooCommerce shops, but I just wasn’t getting a lot of traction there. So I decided to pick something else. And I picked manufacturing after a couple you know, stutter steps here. And that one worked out really good. I got some clients like right out the gate that I was able to basically get them like a little more than 10 X on their return like just 100 x. And from that, I got a buddy referrals from them. So I got a lot of clients.

Bridget Willard 3:02
Wait, did you say 100? x?

John Locke 3:05
By now? Yeah, it’s about 100 X.

Bridget Willard 3:07
Wow, that’s great. Sorry. Yeah.

John Locke 3:10
Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. But um, like I said, through my own SEO efforts, it stopped actively trying to rank for like WordPress. I here in Sacramento and, you know, focus more on ranking for SEO started doing daily SEO videos. I get a lot from a combination of either the videos or people find on my blog or people finding me just searching for SEO company either for manufacturing or here in town. So I’ve actually this will probably be my best year we’re on pace to do that stuff. Yay.

Jason Tucker 3:51
That’s awesome. Yeah, huge.

John Locke 3:53
Yeah, it is huge, Tanya. So that’s

Jason Tucker 3:57
really cool. So So how, you know our Our whole our whole topic today was, you know, essentially where to spend your marketing budget. We, you know, we’ve talked about this quite a few times in the last couple episodes, and especially in like this The season of time that we’re in and this like stuff that we have going on right now. Like, how are people spending their their marketing budgets that you’re seeing? Like, how are they spending them because I know that when we first started off, the first thing to go, everyone’s always said, that’s the first thing that goes is, is marketing. It’s like, we’re not marketing for anything anymore. We’re not spending money, we want to make sure that we have, you know, a surplus of money to go. But now we’re at the point where it’s like, we need people to come back and start spending money at our businesses. And so, you know, how do we start off with that, like, how are these marketing, either marketing agencies or even like your customers? How are they approaching, you know, these marketing efforts?

John Locke 4:57
Yeah, great question. So I mean, My philosophy is part of it is the marketing that you’re doing today is going to produce the sales and the leads that you’re going to get six months from now. It’s never like a thing where you put in $1 today and you’re going to get a lead tomorrow. It’s it’s always building up to down the road. So, knock on wood, I mean, all the people that I have have not cut back on marketing, they might have diverted it into different things. I know other agencies, and people, you know, if they have like restaurants or bars, or hotels or things like that, on their roster, it’s going to be a different story. But the majority of people that I see or have talked to, and my own client roster, they’ve either diverted it into something else. And they’re just putting out marketing for that. So for example, a lot of people get leads from trade shows, especially like in manufacturing, there’s like different trade shows. For each like different little thing. And so people go to these trade shows to get leads, and other types of people go to trade shows, obviously, this whole summer got wiped out. So those people are focusing more on other things that they can do, whether it’s email marketing, whether it’s social media, whether it’s SEO, content production, you know, these are all things that you should be doing anyway. Because it’s just a good habit to get into these things through big return for like what you’re doing. You don’t have to like load up, you know, three people in your booth and go to a trade show or whatever and get these leads, that you can just produce a piece of content promoted on social, promote to your email list, booth, you know, do some SEO on it, measure those results, and you’ll get leads from that for a long time. So that that’s okay. And so your question basically is like, how do you how do you determine like, what

Jason Tucker 7:00
We’re gonna start off like to, like, where are you? Where should we start off? Because I think I think the thing is, is that, you know, when you have a marketing campaign that’s been running for an entire year, you have that you have that kind of, there’s like a bit of a motivation behind it. There’s a bit of momentum behind it. There’s there, you’re kind of you’re, you’re benefiting from last week’s last month’s advertisement campaign. Right now, you’re not benefiting from anything because you’ve had this, you’ve essentially been running these like, ads that are like, you know, COVID-19 is a thing and we recognize it and we’re sorry, you’re stuck at home and it’s like all these everyone’s doing the exact same ad and you can even see it go on YouTube, go do some searches for like, you know, COVID-19 ads, and every single one of them is like, stock footage of empty streets, and people were just talking about how much it sucks.

John Locke 7:56
But how am I out here?

Jason Tucker 7:59
Yeah, yeah. You know, we’re Budweiser, we care.

Bridget Willard 8:03
Care. You know what, that’s the other thing. It’s annoying, because we’re not. Okay. Right? Like, don’t tell me We’re all in this together. You don’t know anything about me. I swear. Like, I made a monogamous friend. Literally. Okay. She has live TV. You don’t even know the live TV commercials. Oh, it’s the word that your plumbing company does X, Y and Z about COVID. I don’t care. Yeah, one thing that I think is smart. I wonder what john thinks about this. It says they’re saying, Listen, we know it’s hard. We have 18 month financing.

So, right.

What I mean, when is it relevant? And

John Locke 8:49
yeah, that’s a great point. So things that you can do. I mean, it’s gonna be different for different people. I mean, obviously, but there are certain industries where you have to Do you say what you’re doing for So for example, if if, say if your business is like a school, or a hair salon or something like that, you know, what are you doing to help your customers through this time? You know, so for a school, you could like, move your stuff online. If you’re a hair salon, I mean, you, you know, it’s, it’s kind of hard to do that maybe you could, you know, do videos on how to cut hair at home or something like that. Those are all things that you can do. I know for the restaurants, and some bars in some cities, they’re letting them do you know, delivery, but those those become like more important things. During this type of situation where the normal flow of life is interrupted, and it’s, there’s something different to it, so you have to be able to roll with those types of punches.

Bridget Willard 9:56
So, I like for me, what I’m thinking is Can we use? I mean, obviously, that’s amazing. Yes, we have to roll. Okay. But let like, let’s just make this a little more green. You know, evergreen like, yeah. Okay, that’s, I have $1,000 to spend on marketing. Can I is there like, how know, how does I say Seo? But maybe I mean, Google Analytics, but how can you use those kinds of results to see what’s working and so that you can spend money and what’s working? You know, I mean, a lot of times I make fun of people who say, my best leads are from Yelp and I say, What do you use? Oh, I just use Yelp. And I’m like, well, that’s why that’s your best leads, you know, you’re stuck. But what about people that are just being like, the machine gun fire everything everywhere? and things just aren’t working anymore, but they don’t. I mean, how do you like go Okay, so This isn’t gonna work for me anymore. I need to focus my money in places that work better.

John Locke 11:05
Right? Right. So I mean, my advice with that is if you’re gonna, if you have like a certain amount of budget, let’s say, like $1,000 a month or whatever, or whatever it is, I wouldn’t focus on too many things all at once, because you’re not going to be able to measure as effectively, and you’re going to dilute your efforts. So just pick like two or three things to focus on at first, but you’re going to want to measure, like what you’re getting. So for example, if you’re doing let’s say that you’re doing AdWords, and then you’re investing in Facebook ads, and we’ll say like Twitter ads or something like that. What you’re going to want to do is you’re going to want to go to Google Analytics. And you’re going to want to go to a tab called acquisition and then go to all traffic and then go to source Medium. And that’s going to tell you like where your traffic is coming from from each of these channels. So usually it will be Google organic, Bing, organic, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, pay per click YouTube, no matter what it is, you can see that. But then what you can do is you can look at the quality of those leads

by looking at

how much time people are spending on the page, how many pages they’re visiting to, and most importantly, if you have this set up in Google Analytics, and if you don’t, this is something you should go set up is goal goals. And you can look at the goal conversion rate. So like for me like a goal goals that I have set up in Google Analytics are going to a thank you page for the contact form. So if you fill out a form will take you to like a thank you page. That’s the goal conversion. There’s other pages specific pages that I want people to go to. Because if they go there, it means that they’re interested in some of my services, the prime services that I’m trying to sell, like the two or three things that I’m most focused on trying to get people to buy. So you can set up other types of goals such as you know, if people spend so much time on a page, or if they spend so much time on the site, or they visit so many pages, but you can look to the quality of the leads that you’re getting from that and so you can kind of tell after a little bit like you know if Facebook ads are working, or if you know, YouTube or SEO or pay per click or whatever it is working. And you can also tell about like how many leads you get by stores because one of the things that a lot of people do is they’ll put How did you hear about us in the contact form a little Be like a required thing that you have to select, you know, how did you hear about us? Was it through Google? Was it through Facebook? Was it through Instagram, you know, don’t make it like too overwhelming, but right to choose maybe like four or five tops. But then you know, that will help you as well determine like where people found you. So and you can kind of tell to you and another thing that you can do, too, is if you have a WordPress site as well, in Gravity Forms, there’s a hidden field that you can put in this is especially useful if you have contact forms on different pages on your site, and not just on your contact page. But you can actually put a hidden field there. It’ll tell you what page people were on when they submitted this contact form. So it will give you a better idea of what page they’re coming from. So you can use all these kind of methods to kind of tell what channels are working for you. So obviously, if you’re spending, let’s say for example, if you’re spending $1,000 a month on Yelp, You’re getting nothing but garbage leads. Or if you’re spending a bunch of money on AdWords, and you’re not really getting any leads out of that, then you could try another methodology for your for getting people in the door. But part of it is like, you know, before deciding where to spend, you got to kind of know where your audience hangs out a little bit and just have a little bit of a intuition of like, maybe like where they would be looking. So before you, you know, go throwing money at different things, but if you determine like a channel is giving you nothing, but like poor quality leads, then you can kind of get rid of that for a while and try something different.

Bridget Willard 15:39
How long would be the minimum amount? Like a month, two weeks?

John Locke 15:43
Yeah, a minimum a month. I mean, and there’s there’s different sales reps from some of these different places that’ll try and get you to sign up for like, as long as possible. yelp is so bad. I mean, but on the first, first, something’s like Problem services and especially in big cities like this. It’s really tough to like avoid spending money on Yelp.

Bridget Willard 16:07
No, I mean, Yelp is bad about making you sign up for six months at a time at, like, $800 a month. Yeah,

I don’t

travel. You know,

John Locke 16:17
if you’re a designer or like a marketer, I would spend any money on Yelp. I mean, I would. But there’s other places that I would go. But if you’re looking at Home Services, if you’re doing contracting or you know, h HVAC or plumbing or electrician, it’s really tough because the wait, okay, the way that Google works, is if you search in your city for any of those services, more than likely the Yelp landing page for that city, or maybe even a couple of them are going to be at the top. Now there’s two reasons for this. One is that it’s giving people what they want, which is a selection of different service providers at the top of that age. So you’re getting to that destination and you’ll see that backed up as well because you’ll also see things like homeadvisor and Angie’s List, landing pages like that the same type of thing. But the other thing is is Yelp has a lawsuit against Google saying that they’re like, you know, not giving their whatever, antitrust and they’re like, you know too much competition for us.

Bridget Willard 17:24
Google My Business,

John Locke 17:27
I guess. I don’t know his.

Jason Tucker 17:29

John Locke 17:31
But so they’re always going to be number one. So for certain industries. This is like another type of thing that you need to do for SEO is make sure that you’re on Yelp. And as an aside to if you’re trying to rank in a local area, if you’re trying to rank in your city and not have a Yelp profile, you need to have one because if you do not have one, it’s going to hurt you that Google leans very heavily on Yelp as part of their local SEO algorithm, so make sure yeah, so make sure that you’re on there that you’re getting reviews that you mentioned, like specific keywords or services that you provide in your company description. You know, all those things, you have to be on there. But like I said, you know, with the landing pages and different things, these different things, you know, whether it’s home advisor, you know, I know people who get leads from home advisor to you, and, but Yelp makes it very difficult because there’s not just like three or four, like sponsored results at the top of the list. There’s like 10, right services, very specifically, like 10 for like Home Services we’ve so before you even get to organic results in Yelp, which is usually the number one result on the page. It’s like 10 sponsored, so it’s hard to avoid spending money with them. Yeah, I’ve heard people say that. It’s kind of a They’re there’s questionable things no matter how much money they put in it, like Yelp will spend it all and they don’t seem to get any difference in leads he gets, leads no matter what. So make the doc will go

Bridget Willard 19:14
Oh, that actually might be hurting yelps paid for Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 19:22
Enter so

Bridget Willard 19:27
much sense. Yeah. See, this is why I like the way we do our show, john. Cuz right now we’re in the weeds about the Yelp, Google SEO local SEO thing that never occurred to me. So, you know, back when we used to teach Sunday school I’ll do a little aside. My husband and I when I say we not me and Jason Tucker, but me and my late husband would had Sunday school. We were in charge of the children’s ministry, and we’d have Vacation Bible School and you buy these curriculums and they tell you exactly what to do. And exactly what to put on the walls and all this stuff. The first year we did it rent the second year. We said, You know what? We picked really good teachers. We’re gonna let them have free rein on what how they want to decorate the rooms and what crafts they want to do. They want to do the lame crafts, they could do the line graphs. If they have a better idea. That’s fine, right? Because we were about at that time we had, I don’t know maybe 350 people to church, so it’s big enough. And boy, oh boy. We had this lady named Jean. Fine artists. Okay. She painted Noah’s Ark on two walls. Oh, wow. This room. That was fantastic. She spent weeks doing it. And we were like, No, you don’t need butcher paper babe. Chicken just ain’t on the wall. This is epic. Right. So sometimes you need to have a little bit of an idea, but you need to trust the people. And this is just another reinforcement. Like this is such a good conversation. I never thought about competing local SEO with Yelp.

So smartphone so smart.

Jason Tucker 21:20
What about if your company isn’t, doesn’t have a physical presence, but rather you’re you’re now you know, just an online presence.

Bridget Willard 21:29
With ethers.

Jason Tucker 21:30
Yeah. What do you what do you do for that? Because like, you can’t, I mean, I guess you could use Yelp for it. But you’re, you’re just telling people don’t go anywhere except for this website. So what are people doing for that?

John Locke 21:42
Right? So certain ones like that. So for Yelp, there are certain categories that they won’t, you can’t get a listing. It’s usually like Google Maps, you have to have a physical location. Same thing as Google My Business. So if you have just one thing, say it’s like, say like a course. Something like that. That’s where SEO and things like Facebook ads or Instagram, things like that, or YouTube, they’re going to become more important because that’s primarily how you’re going to get new customers and new leads and stuff like that. So that’s why I say like those other channels like kind of aren’t important, but you got to focus more on these other ones. So and again, it’s like knowing your audience if you know something’s Facebook ads works really good for they’re easily less expensive than Google ads. So that might be something that you try out if you’re online. But definitely, definitely need to shore up your SEO as well. And I would highly consider like having a YouTube channel as well. Because again, YouTube videos generally appear in Google results you hardly ever see like a video video. Well, sometimes, but usually it’s YouTube, like at the top of the first page because you’re a Google property, right? And most people are on YouTube more than Vimeo or dailymotion or whatever. So, it just makes sense. To be out people are

Bridget Willard 23:20
Yeah, I mean, I decided to, to just you know, I’m all organic for myself. And I don’t do it for I don’t do paid for clients except for boosting a post here or there. And I did a lot of Facebook ads only because I wanted stuff to be clickable on Instagram. And, but then I decided okay, well, let’s try out I just kind of a be tested, a Twitter ad and a face and a LinkedIn ad for my ebook about minding your own business. Oh, my goodness. Okay, first of all, I let it run for $10 One day, both of them. LinkedIn was $2 a click and brought almost no traffic to my website. Obviously, it’s just $2 a click for $10. Like, okay, Facebook, I mean link, words Bridget, Twitter, it was 15 cents a click. And it did show like I got a big spike, but not conversions. So I said, You know what? I’m not spending this money this way. This isn’t working. Okay, so I’m gonna do my little Twitter contest. And my histogram contest. We’ll see how that works. But the thing is, I was like, I felt like I wasn’t even being I felt like I was being a bad client for myself, or, Oh, I know it works. Twitter works the best for me. And that’s all I’m gonna do. So I thought, well, Bridget, come on, you know, like, see, so like, I did that AV test and LinkedIn didn’t work for me. It just didn’t. So Or at least it didn’t work for that product. So, um, yeah, I mean, the thing is that I’m one of the things you said is, you’re spending this money for a result in six months. I love that because I always say there’s no such thing as a first quickly. It’s not a Snickers bar. And even if it was, you still remember the commercial you saw when you’re a kid, about the rumbling, tumbling, and, and class and you’re like, oh, man, it’s 230. I’m hungry. I need Snickers, you know? So there’s still brand awareness that’s involved. And for that, I think it’s valuable to you know, I think that’s probably why you said be in two or three places. Because even if people fill out your form, they don’t always know I mean, I’m a big advocate of filling out the form. In fact, it’s blank. I make them type it in.


I get a lot of second degree leads from Twitter, like somebody knows me from Twitter, and then they refer me So even though it says referred by as our pension, pension, I know that lead really came from Twitter, because that’s when I met her.

John Locke 26:10
That’s it. That’s a great point. I think, you know, especially with people in our community with, you know, web developers, right, and different things, we amplify each other, because we know each other, and, you know, all the people that we know, run, either, you know, small agencies or large agencies, but they refer people that they know, specialized in one thing, you know, I get phone calls from people because they say, you know, I know john and he is someone that I trust, like with SEO, so they, you know, set up different things like that and I’m in slack channels and different things and I hear urinate all the time for their marketing and social media marketing I hear people say that all the time because you become known as the person in our community, WordPress as the person that specialized is not. So you can very much become known for for something through your peers. But first that message even more and it just keeps extending out.

Bridget Willard 27:23
Right so kind of my question is in the measurements, you know, that you’re taking from analytics and all this stuff, and your spreadsheets. How do we quantify that like, for me, I don’t have a spreadsheet yet but I built it really quick. So I only have 23 clients, but if I built it really quick, I could probably say like customer when they say like how many months cuz I’m monthly or something like that or, or their customer lifetime dollar amount, which is easy for me to find out in fresh books, referral sources second degree referral source, and then sort them or whatever. And, you know, I still it’s gonna be Twitter for me, and word camps. So I’m like, What is your recommendation to? To get the whole picture? You have to like somehow all the data together, right? I mean, what is that’s what I’m kind of confused about what’s your recommendation?

John Locke 28:27
Right? I mean, we’re getting more into, like lead scoring and stuff like that to like, you know, trying to assess like, how valuable leads are based.

Bridget Willard 28:37
Does that help you decide? Okay, okay.

John Locke 28:41
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It does. I mean, I mean, definitely, there’s like channels that I find are more valuable than others, or the leads that come from them tend to be more valuable than others and every for everybody that’s going to be a little bit different. But yeah, your your idea is In excellent, different spreadsheets of, you know, different customers and clients, where they came from, and being able to look at that data will give you a good idea of where to spend, you know, actually calculating that. So, my friend Tim Brown over hook agency has a good article on this. It’s at slash digital dash marketing dash budget. But it’s it goes into a little bit about trying to figure out where to spend your marketing budget as well. Like homies are spending in content creation and promotion. So you know, putting stuff on their website and then promoting it through different channels like social or email marketing. That seems to have the longest term effect, but yeah, definitely watch to tabulate, like, where people come from where customers come from it make a note of that. Absolutely. is it’s a good thing. So

Bridget Willard 30:12
yeah, I didn’t think about that till just now like this conversation is always isn’t that true Jason? Like, we have somebody on the show and then we start going, huh? How can I help my clients?

Jason Tucker 30:26
Or why didn’t Why didn’t we name this episode this particular thing instead of this other one? You know, that always happened still.

Bridget Willard 30:36
Crazy Well, we were gonna pick it girls right? Yes

Jason Tucker 30:42
Bridgette want to go for it. Tell us tell us about over our friends over at Big Orange Heart.

Bridget Willard 30:50
Big Orange. is a place that specializes in mental health support from remote workers. It’s our charities mission to support and promote Positive well being and mental health of the remote working communities become part of the sport community at

Jason Tucker 31:13
That’s awesome. I love what they’re doing over over there and cool. The rebranding is is, is definitely a thing that has to be that’d be something we need to go and actually have them come on the show and tell us about the rebranding efforts. Yeah, that’s definitely a thing. Awesome. So let’s see here. We’ve talked about we’ve talked about quite a few different things here, the kind of getting getting, getting these quantitative data out of the analytical packages that are out there is probably something that you if you’re not familiar with this stuff, you’ll look at it and you’ll find that it’s like absolutely daunting. There’s just there’s just a ton of stuff that’s going on in there. But there’s people that you can hire To do this stuff, you know, hiring somebody like john Locke, that’s going to do that part of it for you might be might be a good idea to just be like, hey, so my efforts are going to be in, you know, SEO, and I’m going to put a bunch of effort into SEO, and people are going to be clicking on links and coming back to my website. Maybe I’m doing advertising, and I’m going to have those kind of come in from advertising and be able to look at it. But you know, those ideas of figuring out what’s the right way to, to collect that data and look at it, you know, have you seen good, like reporting tools or even reporting reports that are within Google Analytics that people are looking at to be able to figure out if it’s a, you know, a good way of, you know, keeping that marketing going?

John Locke 32:48

Jason Tucker 32:50
Yeah, because there’s so many of them, but none of them none of them are all that great. It’s like, you know, you can go download them and install them on analytics, but have you seen anything that’s, that’s Good that we should be looking at.

John Locke 33:02
I haven’t seen anything like really stand out. I know that I need to set up a Data Studio.

Jason Tucker 33:08
Yeah, mine.

John Locke 33:10
That’s, that’s long overdue.

Yeah, and let’s mention there is a kind of a library of different reports that debt people have set up for you can look at that. I think I you know, it’s definitely hard because localytics isn’t going to

tell you how much money that you got.

Exactly from from each channel. The closest thing that you can do is, like I said, at the top, when you set up goals, you can assign dollar amounts to each goal conversion. So if your goal can, you know, let’s say that a goal conversion is is submitting a contact form and going to a thank you page. If you give that arbitrary value of $10 or something like that, you can match your goal conversion by channel and get a rough idea of how many leads you’re getting per channel. So, I mean, that’s something, you know, you can set up different goals like that. But that isn’t the exact translation of like how much business you’re getting from that it’s basically an estimation based on the value that that you’re giving it. I think to really get like, a true data, you have to do something like Bridget was mentioning, where you and rich have factual customers or clients and like the channel that they came from, you know, so So like I said, you know, that might be a thing. If you run an e commerce store, and no, you know, lots of people who do that or people who sell contracting services. You know, they have a little thing like where did you Where’d you hear from us and you put that in a spreadsheet, but you have to have the system for that for actually measuring it know that nothing in Google Analytics is really gonna tell you that with accuracy because they don’t know how much money you’re actually making.

Jason Tucker 35:18
Yeah, I mean, we’ve been doing a lot of UTM codes, and using those as ways of being able to, you know, to track to track that. And it requires the people that are sharing those links to remember to use them. Yeah, um, do you have any good solutions to like, explain to folks how to use like, whatever tool that you’re using, or whatever type of system that you’re using to do those links? Do you have any good like suggestions to remind like, you know, your clients, hey, this is how I’m tracking stuff. And by the way, like, if you want to know what that ROI is, I can’t tell you what the return on that investment is. until you actually track it appropriately. Right, right, right. Do you have any suggestions for that?

John Locke 36:07
Yeah. Great, great, great suggestion. So like for those who don’t know, to like UTM links, it’s basically a parameters that you have at the end of the web address or link. And it’ll basically show up in Google Analytics as that channel. I know some people that add UTM to the Google My Business like so where it says like your website, the link, they put that in there. So that shows up as specifically because otherwise I don’t think it shows up in Google Analytics, I think otherwise, it shows up as direct. And direct is a channel doesn’t mean that people just typed it in.

Bridget Willard 36:50
Oh, doesn’t wait.

Is it then

John Locke 36:58
it means everything. That’s They don’t know, like exactly where it came from. It includes people who type it directly. And that’s not that’s all it is. It’s not all it’s everything that is not that they can’t determine.

Bridget Willard 37:17
Yeah, that’s drops.

Jason Tucker 37:19
That’s all by now. It’s all back.

Yeah. And that’s where like, you know, somebody goes and takes out your business card, and then they go and type in the web address. That Yeah, that sort of thing. And that’s where, like, that’s why people were, you know, so adamant of like, having these like, special domain names that they would use to be able to, like send people to because they could say, like, you know, bridges business, and that’s going to be like the, you know, they know where that’s coming from. It’s just like the same thing way back in the day where you’d have phone numbers and you’d have to generate a phone number for a specific dial in for each of the different catalogs. On each of the different, you know, newspapers and magazines and whatnot, so it still goes back to like, like us at the church, we have this exact same problem where we throw, we throw a web address up on the screen, and we’re like, hey, so, you know, pull out your phone and go to this special web address. But unless it’s unique to the rest of the campaign that you’re doing, you’re not going to know one way or the other where those people came from, maybe based on time or something like that. But you know, if you’re, we record our stuff, people can go and watch it later. Well, you’ve lost that uniqueness. So that’s where those like, those codes, you know, those, those parameters at the ends of the URLs are important because at least you can use that as a way to determine you know, where those people came from. And typically, when you’re putting the stuff in like Facebook, or you’re putting this in an advertisement or something like that, you’re able to, you know, to specify right then and there, this is, you know, this is what that that link is So I see like remelting about this,

Bridget Willard 39:04
like, you could put it in a, you could do your UTM codes, which I think are a total pain in the ass by the way. I don’t do them. I mean, clearly, I should. But what if you did that and then use Bitly and then shared that link with people?

Jason Tucker 39:22
Yeah, you can do that. Yeah, that

John Locke 39:24
that might work. Yeah.

Bridget Willard 39:27
But still there watch it again. You don’t know if it was live or not?

Jason Tucker 39:32
Yeah, I’m not too worried about that. You just want to know that it that the person saw it based on the place that you know, they were they were at, you know, at the time. Do you really care about the exact moment or whatever? It’s more along the lines of you know, did they go and click on that link or not? Or go to that special web address?

Bridget Willard 39:56
Yeah, my brain is just like

Jason Tucker 40:07

Bridget Willard 40:07
maybe you can introduce yourself on a podcast ago. Hey, my name is Bridget Willard You can find out [email protected]

Jason Tucker 40:15
It’s a

Bridget Willard 40:17
capital 7632

Jason Tucker 40:21
No, but you could tell them go to go to or you know link or

Bridget Willard 40:28
or like the Willard Yeah.

Jason Tucker 40:31
Yeah. Or make a you know, make another domain name. Yeah.

John Locke 40:36
Well, well, that’s why that’s why affiliates use those coupon codes like, like, we’ve got a special offer for our WP lab listeners use code right on WD blab and then when those come in, they know that those customers came from the podcast.

Bridget Willard 40:56
So that’s Yep.


Jason Tucker 41:00
So those are those are, those are tricky things to do, which is kind of what we were, you know, kind of going through here is how do you how do you navigate that? I think you have to get the plan way far ahead. There’s plenty of tools that you could do that and I’ll you make my Tool Tip of the Week this week to discuss a little bit about that. But it’s Yeah, they’re they’re tough. They’re tough.

Bridget Willard 41:24
Yeah, that’s crazy town. I’m so spontaneous. That’s what I’m realizing from this whole conversation. I feel like every time I’m on this show, which is every week,

little bit like, I’ve come to Jesus moment, and

it’s like, like little Tiffany’s for a while. I’m not really even a marketer. I woke up today thinking I wasn’t even a copywriter. And then Jen Miller was like, I think we need to have a conversation. But you know what I mean, like so. So like, what would you say to I’d like to get somebody started. They’re just, you know, they’re a, there’s pivoting to web, they’re realizing they need to spend money on the internet because of what’s happening and how long it lasts. Nobody knows. Some people think it’ll be forever. Some people think it’ll blow over. I mean, there’s protesting right now about using wearing masks at Costco. In New York and other people like whatever this just fine to wear a mask. Personally, I don’t like wearing a mask because it makes me feel claustrophobic. And I kind of start feeling like I can’t breathe. Okay, so like, I have little I get panic attacks. So, and then not to mention the whole thing with people who lead read lips for like, That’s right, deaf and hard of hearing. You know, I’m not even technically Hard of Hearing but I have a I realized I read lips more than I Real. I mean, now I’m realizing how much I do read lips, because I don’t hear that well. So when somebody is talking like this and it’s all mumble it’s muffled anyway, and then yeah, and then you can’t see their lips. It’s really hard. You have to like your brain is just tired. Anyway, that’s a whole nother accessibility situation anyway, so yeah, let’s like, Okay, this whole conversation has been overwhelming. They’ve hung with us for 43 minutes. What’s the like, okay, let’s just, let’s just baby step this thing. Well, where do they start?

John Locke 43:36
Okay, so first thing, I mean, honestly, first thing you should do. If you’ve got a website, make sure you have Google Analytics installed. One of the things that you want to bookmark again, is under the acquisition tab, all traffic, spirits medium, get familiar with that or put it on Your own dashboard, you can kind of see like where your visitors are coming from vaccine you need to do is set up goals within Google Analytics and determine what those are going to be. Like I said, the one that makes the most sense is submitting a contact form. Easiest way to do that is making it when people submit it both to thank you page, so you can go to that URL. That’s the easiest way to do it. But you can set up other conversions as well. If you have a form Come on.

You compare us thing

next step is determine like what your marketing budget is determine where you think your customers are. I suppose channels don’t try like too many all at once because it will be won’t really give like anything Any of the channels give like an honest effort, or at least a month tour over channels you you believe your customers are on and then measure what’s coming in. See if there is more traffic coming in from channels that you’re putting money into, at the end also measure where your customers and clients are coming from. Put that in a spreadsheet and you can determine like the quality the overall least getting.

Bridget Willard 45:35
Wow, that’s perfect. that’s a that’s a good seven step method. I love it. The show notes gonna be so easy, but I do have a cramp in my hand from right. Oh, that was great. Really great.

As always, but we’re at the Tool Tip of the week section, aren’t we Jason? Do we

Jason Tucker 45:57
are we are the Tool Tip of the Week section for that. This tour Tip of the Week is brought to us by Cloudways. Cloudways is optimized for speed and delivery, outstanding performance security, all sponsored or awesome, all supported by 20 473 65 support by expert cloud engineers. Cloudways extends your in house team and takes care of all your server management issues let you focus on building amazing websites for your online business. If you like what you heard hearing about Cloudways go check them out [email protected] for a three day free trial. That’s

Bridget Willard 46:45
Who’s going first?

John Locke 46:46
I’ll go first. Go for it. Yeah, I’m gonna put this in chat is this article that I mentioned from my friends over agency in Minneapolis.

This art on digital marketing budget,

again, check out there, check out their stuff they break down. You know how much of your overall revenue. The Small Business Administration advises that you put forward, it will show you the trends of where people are spending how much you’re spending on digital marketing. Expect to get out of it.

Bridget Willard 47:25
Oh, yeah. I love that. And again around.

John Locke 47:28
Yeah. And I’ll tell you, I like the web design instead. It’s pretty good.

Bridget Willard 47:33
So that’s beautiful. Well, I love pie charts, man.

Jason Tucker 47:38
What we’re suggesting away from this one. But what were some big takeaways from this one.

John Locke 47:44
My big takeaways is

you should spend probably about six or 7% of your total revenue on marketing, and it’s really interesting that I think it was like 31% percent of all businesses are either spending on content marketing or SEO. I found that very interesting. So, obviously, people find that valuable, and most people 44% of them are doing not to increase leads. So one thing that I thought was interesting as well is the part of the marketing spend. This is kind of a counterintuitive thing, but percentage of marketing spend that will go toward digital marketing in 2020. The 36% of people said that it was less than 20% of their marketing but so that means people are still doing things like trade show or print ads or TV or radio. So more so than digital marketing, which I would count as like SEO, social content and video

Jason Tucker 49:00
Though huh? Yeah and in when you’re spending that marketing that marketing budget determining, you know, which places are the best places to spend it is probably the the harder part of it. But I think the simple fact that you need, like you’re saying maybe you need to spend a lot more money on that on that marketing, which overall means that you know, if those marketing efforts go well, that you’ll be making more money just in general, but that you know, that marketing effort isn’t including the person that you’re paying to do the marketing effort. So take that into account, because just because you’re paying somebody to do marketing doesn’t necessarily mean that that person is, is doing marketing for you until you actually spend some money behind it. No. What do you mean?

Bridget Willard 49:51
Like if I get hired, I’m part of people’s I’m a vendor. Why no but like marketing,

Jason Tucker 49:57
if, but if you’re if you’re being asked to go And, and do you do like boost campaigns or spend money on advertising? Yeah, no, but there’s still there’s still marketing sides to that. Isn’t there? I mean, every

Bridget Willard 50:15
marketing budget includes the person that’s doing the marketing.

John Locke 50:20
Yeah. Obviously, that I’ll say this too. I think there are certain industries where you have to spend on TV and print right. Like lawyers, like oh, yeah, area lawyers. You have to do that.

Jason Tucker 50:35
Just to kind of qualify qualify a little bit what I was saying is that is that if you’re gonna if you’re gonna have somebody who’s going to be managing the marketing side and advertising side of you know, of that, of that business, they need to have that ammunition that money to be able to spend to do it. And if you just say, Okay, here you go, I’m paying for you now. Go, go do go to work. They can do whatever they can do with what they have available to them. And that’s it. And if you don’t give them some money to actually go and spend to do you know, to do those efforts, then you’re gonna get whatever they’re able to produce. And that’s it. That’s the

Bridget Willard 51:14
budget for advertising dollars. Yep. Yeah. And for tools. Yep. And for other vendors. 100. And I was just like,

Jason Tucker 51:25
what? Yeah, no, I didn’t want to. I know, I was essentially saying

Bridget Willard 51:30
this on the podcast.

Jason Tucker 51:33
No, I wasn’t trying to do that at all. Well, yeah, those are those are, those are. Those are hard things to navigate. If you’ve never done this stuff before, and we you know, we’re hoping that we can help you out with some of that,

Bridget Willard 51:49
and not make you more confused. But

my tip is the subtle art of not giving a bleep for that because I know maybe Some young people now okay wait but if you are adverse to this for what a letter word and it’s not blogging, or blog, then you’re not gonna want to read this cuz it’s like, ritual to sleep sprinkled everywhere. I mean, this book makes Gary Vaynerchuk sound like He never says but but it’s making a point. It’s being absurd to demonstrate absurdity. And, basically, I mean, I’m only on chapter three, which is you’re not special. I had to wait and not read that when I was feeling a little too sad. But the thing is, like it’s about, of course, we care about things, but you need to care about the things that are worth caring about. Right? I remember when I was first married, what used to really bother me was the fact that my husband would have a cup or a can an empty soda can and they go, Oh, it’s empty. And then Leave it on the desk and then go get a new one. Okay, so for the first year of our marriage, I was like, so annoyed, like you already got up, go take it with you or, or who put his glass on the counter and in addition washer where it belongs. Okay. And then I realized after your one, he’s 57 years old at this point. Do I want to spend the rest of this marriage arguing about this one thing? No. Until the day he died, literally. I’m not kidding. Until the day he died. I collected glasses all over this 1200 square foot apartment. Okay, super small. Maybe it’s not even that it might even be 1000 square feet. I have no idea. It’s really small. There’s not that many places to put classes every De I collected them from all over this apartment. So like when I’m reading this now I’m like, Okay, I get his concept, like things that are bugging us what is really bugging you? Is it that thing, or something else is deeper? And if it really doesn’t matter that much, then don’t spend your energy thinking about it. Because right now where I live, and part of my whole problem with dating, and then why I always think about should move is I don’t fit in to the Southern California positive vibes, man. I don’t. That’s not me. I don’t care that you serve, and I don’t care that you kayak. I’m glad you have hobbies. What do you want to do together? Like that’s my whole thing. Right? But if you think I’m negative because I talk about real reality, like we’re not gonna get along, right and I’m not a negative person which is funny because most of my friends will Here’s the most positive person I ever met until I start meeting people are like positive vibes. Oh,

like, okay,

John Locke 55:08
whatever. No, I couldn’t hang with that either.

Bridget Willard 55:12
Like, life isn’t positive. Okay. There’s Yin and Yang, you know. And he even talks about the story of the Buddha. And you know how he came to be. And I was like, Whoa, I didn’t know that was Buddha’s backstory, because Buddha was a real person, like Jesus is a real person. I mean, not i’m not promoting Buddhism, I’m saying he was a real person who had a real history. But the thing is, like, I was like, we want everything to be all black or all white, and that’s not reality. So there has to be some gray, there has to be some things that really matter. What matters to me is I pay the rent, I pay my car payment, and I pay my health insurance. And so that’s what I give an F about, right? So it’s not that you don’t care. It’s just that you don’t care that your husband leaves glasses all over the goddamn house every day. In this life for the 23 years that you were married, so 365 times 23. That’s how many days are glasses all over the house? or soda cans? diet soda, because it was diabetic, but yes. So, I mean, if that’s you, and you find yourself reverting, I had a 37 year old recommend this to me. And I’m reading it.

Jason Tucker 56:23
That’s awesome.

John Locke 56:25
Just say no to. That’s how it’s about could be a lot worse.

Bridget Willard 56:31
Oh, no, I know. There were worse things. But I’m not going to talk about being a step parent and how horrible that is.

It’s soul crushing. It’s a soul crushing experience. I never want to do it again. But anyway, what happened with you, Jason?

Jason Tucker 56:50
So I want to do Oh, I’m gonna I’m gonna talk about what we talked about, probably, I don’t know. I want to say maybe it was like 20 or 30 episodes ago. where

Bridget Willard 57:01
nobody remembers.

Jason Tucker 57:02
Yeah, exactly, which is why I wanted to bring it back up, I’m probably not the best person to describe this. So I’m hoping that, that john can help me out a little bit with this. But the tool that I’m going to share is, is Google’s you URL Builder, campaign builder. And so what this does is it makes it so that you can make those codes that we were just talking about. And this, this tool is probably not the best tool to do this. And I’m going to show you one that I use, that’s a little bit better. But what it does is you fill in the blanks, it’s like you put in the web address, or you’re going to you put in the campaign that you’re going to be using, which for this one was WP water cooler. We were using MailChimp as our campaign thing that we’re going to send it out to, we named the campaign This was our December 1 mailing you can put in terms and content in there as well if you wanted to. But then what it does is it generates this this URL here And what it does is everything after this question mark is that we were talking about. So you have UTM underscore source equals the, you know, the thing that we put in the first box, then the thing we put in the second box, and then the thing, we put the third box, and it kind of breaks it all down there. If you’re somebody who like me, who uses Google Chrome a lot, and you, you want to be able to generate these quickly, there’s a tool that you can install, which is called the Google Analytics URL Builder. And what this does is you can set up presets, and these are like different preset, this is the ones that come with it. So this is like just the basic presets that are in here. And then what happens is when you go up to the top here and click on this, you get those presets listed in here. So it’s all figured out and then what I’ll do is hit copy URL, and it will generate that URL for me. What we were talking about earlier, is if you want to use a URL shortener, you can actually do that as well. Over on the left hand side under shortening, URL, I’ll set up you can go here and put in bit your Bitly information. And it’ll generate a bitly link for you. So then when we come back over there, yes. So when we go back over here and we tell it to go and generate that, you know that link of let’s say we’re doing like a Facebook CPC or something like that. And we’re going to do it for WP water cooler comm you can see that generates a URL down the bottom here. And if you hit shortening, copy, it will make a shortened version of it. Right? at all. So you don’t have to do anything special other than the link in the top. Yeah. JOHN, have you ever used something like this?

John Locke 59:39
I have. But mostly for client to want something like that. I’m like Bridget, I like to keep things like simple and But yeah, I mean, this is like, yeah, I have you stuff like this. And this is useful. If you want to get specific information about specific campaigns and you’re doing a bunch of different ones, you can kind of measure effectiveness using cuz it feeds more information into Google Analytics. Yeah.

Jason Tucker 1:00:10
Well, hey john, we’re about ready to wrap up. Can you tell us where people can find you online?

John Locke 1:00:17
Yeah, two places.

The first place is my YouTube channel. I’m there every day, make a video with a guest skip like one day in the last year. But if you just search hashtag lockdown SEO or if you search john Locke SEO on YouTube, you’ll find me so go ahead and subscribe. And the other place you can find me It’s my website which is locked down SEO. calm.

Jason Tucker 1:00:42
Awesome. Alrighty, well, I want to say thank you.

Thanks, folks, wow, that audio is super loud. I gotta fix that. Mad a stuff happens right? So there you go. So thank you very much for hanging out with us. We appreciate it talk to y’all later.

Episode Info

Podchaser - Smart Marketing Show
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Inline Feedbacks
View all comments

EP159 – Spend Your Marketing Budget Wisely with John Locke…

This Article was mentioned on

John Locke

This Article was mentioned on

“I wouldn’t focus on too many things all at once, because you’re not going to be able to measure as effectively, and you’re going to dilute


This Article was mentioned on

Bridget Willard

This Article was mentioned on

Hook Agency
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
Scroll To Top