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Those of us who work in technology can hardly imagine working without high-speed internet. Many of us pay a premium for that service. But what about the average citizen? How are they accessing content?

Would you believe that 37% of American adults use their phones to go online? Even 25% of adults don’t pay for high-speed internet and rely upon data plans.

“Today, 37% of U.S. adults say they mostly use a smartphone when accessing the internet.” Pew Research

So, let’s have a conversation about marketing strategies that are mobile-first. We’re so happy that Wes Chyrchel is our guest to talk about this timely subject.

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Mobile-First Means Asking Questions

When you are designing your eCommerce site, it’s important to understand the customer’s behavior. Wes echos a lot of what Michelle Keefer said in our discussion about UX.

“People think they can do UX without research; you’re designing in a bubble.” Michelle Keefer

“Everybody has to understand who their customers are and how they shop.” Wes Chyrchel

“People are shopping on their phones first,” Wes says, then they are calling. So when they call ask them a simple question. “How Do You Use Our Site?”

Mobile-first isn’t the same as mobile responsive.

“It’s a challenge; it takes constant evaluation to see what the customer wants.” Wes Chyrchel

Mobile-First Means Simple

Simple means there is one call to action. Simple means the pop-ups don’t cover the screen. Simple means using collapsable elements as Jason Tucker mentions.

You may even have iframe elements that scroll. Maps in the wrong place are some of the biggest hangups on mobile sites. Thinking mobile-first means an address that can be highlighted to open the app of the consumer’s choice is best.

Five Verbs of a Website

There are five things a customer can do on a website:

  • Call
  • Click
  • Read
  • Buy
  • Submit

That’s it. Each page should have one of these verbs as a goal.

Change the experience for mobile and increase your eCommerce sales. Mobile-first thinking is revenue-first thinking.

Resist The Temptation to Be Clever

This isn’t the time to cram in features or be clever. Just because you can include a feature, doesn’t mean you should. Ask yourself if it helps the user DO the one goal.

“People overthink mobile. They cram features that don’t belong there. It has to be different.” Wes Chyrchel

Mobile-First Helps Sales Department

Your mobile first site is a sales tool. Accept the feedback from all of the departments in you company. Spend the time asking your team what they think. Don’t dismiss feedback because the people giving it aren’t “technical;” neither are your customers.

“We get in our own way a lot.” Wes Chyrchel

Tool or Tip of the Week

This Tool or Tip of the week is brought to you by WP and UP. WP and UP recognizes that members of the WordPress community can potentially manifest mental health issues from a variety of pressures. The WP and UP Health Hubs are designed to provide holistic support for the individual. Check them out and donate to their cause:

Wes recommends having a different mindset when designing your mobile site. In fact, at the company he works at, they design mobile and desktop separately. They are eventually merged. Do a mobile audit every two years.

Jason recommends Kinoni which allows you to use your phone as a wireless webcam.

Bridget recommends Kindle Create and publishing on Amazon Direct Print.

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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker (00:00:00):
This is WPwatercoolers. New show, The WordPress Marketing Show, episode number 156 mobile WordPress marketing strategies. This show is made possible by our sponsors ServerPress ourselves on Patreon. You can go check that out and I’ll tell you about that in a little bit as well as WPandUP. I want to say thank you very much for ServerPress, for helping us out. We really appreciate it and we’re hoping that our ads for WPandUP are bringing great folks over to learn more about the organization and the cool things that they can do over there. Check out ServerPress makers DesktopServer, they make local WordPress development easy. You go check them out over at I do want to let you know that if you want to subscribe to our show and the things that we have going on here as well as the other shows that we have on the network, you can go over to where you can learn how to subscribe to this show as well as all the other shows on the network.

Jason Tucker (00:01:01):
So we’ve done all the things, I can’t see enough stuff to be able to click things to be my graphic show up so they go Bridget. But I want to do to let you know that that, that if you’ve if you’re checking out our show for the first time or if you’re a long time, a person that’s been watching our show hit the little like button, hit the share button, tell people about it. We’re going to be talking about mobile first marketing today and this is one of those, this is a very important topic, especially if you’re building your website for the first time and you want to plan this stuff out. We want to make sure that you’re well aware and ready to be able to kind of work through all the different strategies that you need to there. Bridget, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jason Tucker (00:01:45):
Hey, I am Bridget Willard and you can find out about my business services at I do marketing and copywriting for WordPress products and agencies. I also have tutorials on my YouTube channel on how to make your life a little bit easier online using some tools and strategies. And my new book just came out on Kindle last night. Dysfunctional love songs, affirmations for the hopeless romantic. It’s a little bit of self-help wrapped up in a lot of humor. It will be available on paperback as soon as I do all the things Amazon asked me to do at four o’clock in the morning, which I’m not going to do right now.

Jason Tucker (00:02:30):
Links, we’ll have links for that book and all the other books. Bridget’s been writing some books. And so yeah, the web links to be able to go check out her page, her author page on Amazon and check out all the books that she has on over there. Encourage her to write more cause she’s been doing great. It’s awesome to see stuff out there. I’m Jason Tucker, as I mentioned earlier. You can find me over at @JasonTucker on Twitter and my website is I do this show as well, another show called the water cooler. We’re going to be talking today about how to be able to sell things quickly on your WordPress site. So if you if you just want to sell one or two items, maybe a tee shirt, maybe a hat, maybe something like that. There’s a quick and easy ways to be able to do that with having to build up a full e-commerce stack or be able to install it. Woo commerce or something on your website. So we’re going to kind of navigate those waters today. So feel free. Go take a look at that. That’s at 11:00 AM Pacific. We’ll see you there. Wes, we’ve, we’ve talked about everything, but Wes at this point it’s Wes Chyrchel. How’s it going man? Tell us.

Wes Chyrchel (00:03:38):
Okay. Well I’m Wes Chyrchel, I [email protected] And you can check out some of my latest museums and they’re starting to shoot a little bit more video. My day job is the chief operating officer of star fire It’s an eCommerce site where we sell furniture online and we’re, we’re dealing with it just like everybody else. And e-commerce is definitely a good business to be in right now. And if you are running an eCommerce site, this is your, a day in the day in the sunshine right now. This is, this is, it’s incredible. It’s great. E-Commerce is definitely cool now,

Jason Tucker (00:04:20):
But if you’re a brick and mortar and all of a sudden you’re like, Whoa, I have to tell people about my menu on Instagram. We have t-shirts for sale. I love Dana point. I live. But the local chamber of commerce said, Oh yeah, shop local. Dana point strong and they made these t-shirts, but you can’t buy them online. You have to go to the business.

Wes Chyrchel (00:04:48):
Right. Well, it’s important. It’s, it’s really, it’s it. Yeah. What we were you saying earlier? It’s a, it went from mobile first to mobile last.

Jason Tucker (00:04:57):
Yeah. Like in our last episode we were talking with Chen Miller and she was, she was saying with blending pages, you should use your landing page on as many devices as possible. So like Jason is a King of monitors and a lot of times we have these big giant monitors or, or even, you know, good laptops where we’re seeing, we’re seeing our content. First of all, I don’t know, less than 18 inches away or about 20 inches away and we have our reading glasses on and we have big monitors and then all of a sudden somebody goes to orange County department of Health’s website and it’s not, it’s not mobile first, for sure.

Wes Chyrchel (00:05:43):
Right, right.

Jason Tucker (00:05:44):
Wait, are you speaking from experience right now?

Jason Tucker (00:05:47):
I mean, there might be a reason right now for people to look at the orange County department of health online

Wes Chyrchel (00:05:55):
Right. Opportunity everywhere.

Jason Tucker (00:05:58):
Like it’s everywhere from cover it to local agencies to I just want to sell this thing. Can you talk a little bit about for the novice for the brick and mortar, like Oh my gosh, I’m in trouble. I need to sell a thing. How do they check what they’ve built?

Wes Chyrchel (00:06:18):
Well, I think the way, the way we’ve, we’ve designed, I think we’ve done three since I’ve been working for them. We’ve designed the site three times and so every time we’ve tried to get better and better and where we’ve started was just really understanding you. Everyone has to start to understand who their customers are first and how they shop. So if you have, I think that’s the biggest mistake that people make. They think that, Oh, they already know what their customer wants or you know, a lot of times, you know, most of our sales start actually on the phone and we actually track that. We get most of our visitors, visitors from about 55% of our visitors start on mobile. And that pathway to purchase is actually ends up, you know, they start on mobile and then then they eventually call or, or they purchase through the site or on desktop.

Wes Chyrchel (00:07:14):
So that’s, but people are constantly viewing and perusing and shopping, shopping right there, like walking to the aisles and stuff on their phone first. Cause it’s easy, it’s accessible. And so you really miss an opportunity if it, you know, like, Hey, you know, and I wonder like you were talking about a food place. I wonder if this what, you know, wonder what these guys have. I wonder if they have specials. I’m just going to go look them up for maybe later in the week or taco Tuesday or whatever. And if you can’t even get access to it, Oh well onto the next one you have that split second. So the, to me the first thing is, is knowing who your customers are and how they shop on your site and then accommodating them and even even ask them. That’s one of the biggest breakthroughs we had was, you know, we’re lucky enough to have a lot of customers that call us. So we just started asking them, you know, how you use our site? And they’re more than happy to tell you, you know, they’re whether they leave a review or they’re having difficulties, they’ll definitely share their opinion. They want a shop from you, they want to buy from you, but if you make it difficult, you’re just going to piss them off.

Jason Tucker (00:08:23):
Yeah. I did order from one of the nice restaurants and I just called them and I said, I can’t read your menu. Do you have a choice?

Wes Chyrchel (00:08:31):
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, you’re like, you’re an educated user. Like other people probably didn’t even go that far. Right.

Jason Tucker (00:08:41):
I know, but this is what I’m talking about. The 25 year olds, the 30 year old nephew that’s doing this for the brick and mortar or whoever, you know, if you don’t wear reading glasses yet. Yeah.

Wes Chyrchel (00:08:56):
You don’t know. I think, well, I’ve not seen there’s a thong in there somewhere, I think. I think people, I think people overthink mobile. I think they, I think they, it’s like paralysis by analysis, you know, kind of situation. People try to make it bigger than it needs to be and they want to, they want to cram as many features as they can in there. And so it becomes, you know, a bigger conversation, a bigger conversation and then, and then just stuff just does ends up not happening or it keeps getting put on the back burner on the back burner. So, you know, then what ends up happening is like, well we need to re redesign this page or we’ll don’t forget, we need to have the pop up ad. How are we going to show our specials? How are we going to get the customer’s email address? They want to do all these things to sort of emulate that desktop experience but on a much smaller screen. And you can’t, you can’t do that. You know, it has to be different.

Jason Tucker (00:09:52):
And so what are the, what are the things that people should be focusing in on that make for a good mobile experience on, on a phone?

Wes Chyrchel (00:10:03):
Well, one of the things, I think it depends, depending on your, you know, I wrote a long time ago that there’s I S I, I said there’s only five things that people can do on a site, right? You know, it’s, it’s call a click read by or submit. So those are the things, those are your calls to action depending on the type of eCommerce site that you have. And so if you are trying to direct people to call, I mean this is all, this is all stuff we know, you know, but it’s sometimes it has to be reiterated or put in practical purposes. You know, it’s sort of like if you want people to call you then put your phone number easy and big across the top. If you want people to read that, make it easier for people to read and format your copy so that it’s easy to read on your phone.

Wes Chyrchel (00:10:52):
These are all simple things. If people, you want people to send you something and submit something to you, make that process easier. Make the buttons bigger. Maybe not just a little tiny submit button. Maybe it’s the width of the screen and a little bit taller with bolder text that says submit and it doesn’t shrink down to a 10 point font, you know, on the phone. I think those types of things and really taking a step back and making it, some people do that cause they’re trying to be too artsy, you know, or too they’re trying to be too creative or they’re trying to be clever. And I think that’s not the time to be clever with your mobile site. I think it’s, it’s really about practicality. If you want people to book an appointment or contact you in any way, you really have to make that easy.

Wes Chyrchel (00:11:35):
At the same time you don’t want, if your people, people will scroll on a site, they’re used to scrolling. Now it’s, it’s fine. It’s totally normal. But at the same time, you, maybe you want to make some of the forms shorter, you know, cause if they have to answer question after question, I was, I was filling out some information yesterday for for new service, for signing up for work and I had to fill out form after form, after form, and I have scrolling. I’m like, man, there has to give me all kinds of questions. And I said, I was thinking to myself, man, if this was on my phone I would have stopped. You know, it’s just, it was too much. So maybe you can even alter that experience. It’s, you really have to change the experience of how people are interacting with you on the phone so that it’s simple. It’s easy. It’s understandable because like, like you said, Bridget, your eyesight’s different, you know, you’re, you’re holding it in a much farther away from your face. You know, you don’t want to have to go like this just to read. And

Jason Tucker (00:12:38):
A lot of times, so I’m in between, so if I don’t have my reading glasses on, I can’t read them with these. So then I’m going like this, right. But that’s reality, so I can’t, or I have to go like this and then, you know, I’m like, you know that. So, you know, I’m 47. That’s just the way it is, you know? And so what I feel like I’m hearing you say, and I just want to clarify this when you’re saying the mobile experience has to be different. Are you saying don’t just rely on the mobile responsive theme of your site and make an M. Dot. Yes. Well, no, I mean, going back to M. Dot.

Wes Chyrchel (00:13:26):
I mean, I think, yeah, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re almost getting into progressive, right? Like, so there, there were those nights that were basically creating different versions, you know, basically depending on the viewport size. And I think to some extent that’s coming back a little bit more because a responsive, you end up taking so much off the page or hiding, you know, when it becomes responsive that, you know, even just, you look at a PDP page for a product and there, there’s so much stuff that people are putting on there. There’s all these different, you know, they want the specs of the product, they want the reviews of the product, they want all this information for a product. And it’s sort of like, well how do I, how do I fit that on there? All the pictures, all the images. Cause you’re, what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to emulate that tactile experience that people have in the store.

Wes Chyrchel (00:14:18):
You know, it’s like, well I want to know how that, if I’m buying a hat or a tee shirt, you said, you know, how does that, how does that, is it a boxy fit or those are the in my sleeves going to be up here. How does it fit on that person? And it’s, and there’s multiple body types, right? Well I’m, you know, I, I want to see how this shirt fits, you know, how does it look, you know, does it, is it real? Blousey I, you know, I don’t know. And so that’s what a lot of the things that you have to consider and even how it hat fits. Is it too big? Is it too tall? I mean is, you know, almost a top hat, you know, I think people, people want more and they’re going to keep asking for more. So you have to provide all that information and if it gets too crowded and you’re pinching and zooming and moving you’re just going to frustrate the customer.

Wes Chyrchel (00:15:05):
So it’s, it’s a challenge because you, it’s, it’s, it takes constant evaluation to figure out how to what your customers are looking for. We, we, we’ve gone through and we’ve removed stuff and then all of a sudden we, you know, customer complaints and we don’t have information and then we put it back, you know, but we just try to, we try to educate ourselves and put it back in a, in a better way. And you know, it’s even just, you know, they, they constantly, they talk about with AB testing of ’em even add to cart buttons, you know, I mean we’ve even, we our our for years our, our add to cart button was bright orange and then you know, people will say, Oh yeah, I got a 60% click through rate by changing the color of my add to cart button. I don’t know necessarily if that’s true, but we change ours to green and now we don’t have any people complaining about clicking the add to cart button.

Wes Chyrchel (00:16:01):
There were some people that, because it was so monochromatic that there was so much orange in orange already in our design that having that orange button is as part of our style colors. It just didn’t stand out enough. So it was really weird. It’s kinda like, you know, you’re looking for your glasses. Where are my glasses, where are my glasses? And they were like sitting right in front of you, top of your head. You don’t see it because it’s sitting there in front of you and you’re like, Oh, there they are. And you’re just not.

Jason Tucker (00:16:28):
So that’s a good point though, West, because we’re too close to it. Yeah. The creators are too close. Just like, it’s hard to proofread your own writing because our brains know what we wrote and you know, we know what we designed. So it’s like those puzzles you see on Facebook where, Oh, if you can read this, you’re above average. No, that’s just how our brain, our brain wants to fill in missing information. Yeah. That’s how we’re wired. So for us to prove, read our own work or look at our site, you know, ourselves on our own phones, maybe that’s not the best idea. It’s a good first step. But like Michelle Keefer was saying, you really do need to have, you know, your cousin, your brother, your neighbor, your uncle, look at it. Ask them how they see it. What’s your process for getting outside, you know, not as educated people looking, you know?

Wes Chyrchel (00:17:32):
Well, we do, we definitely do. A lot of times what we, we, we get feedback from everyone and then we put up, we’ll put up a testing environment and we’ll say, we’ll actually give it to our sales people because one of the things too is we use our sales, our site as a sales tool. So the site on every product page you’ll see at the bottom there’s an ID. Cause sometimes customers call in and they’ll say, well, I’m looking on your side. I’m looking at this product and you know, I does this product come in, this configuration? And you kind of go, all right, well what page are you on? Well, I’m on this page. And so we had so many problems with customers navigating, we created an, a unique ID because every product has a item ID. So we’ve put that at the bottom of the site so they can scroll down the site, they can tell us the item ID, we can put it in the search bar and boom on that exact page that they’re seeing.

Wes Chyrchel (00:18:26):
So those are some ways that we’ve developed that people can navigate to the site easily. And so we send that around. Little things like that happened because of just feedback from sales. You know, we really rely on our sales people, all the people that customer face every day. And so I always look, even our morning meetings now with, with everyone working from home, I, I say, Hey, we’re doing morning check-ins every day at eight, eight 30 and they’re like, rarely why it’s so redundant. And I go, no, because every day there’s a new customer call and it’s only 15 minutes. There’s something that sales will say that, Oh yeah, customer was doing this and it didn’t make sense to them and you’re going to go perfect. That was totally worth that call. 15 minutes for that gem of information. We’re going to now we’re going to fix the site, we’re going to make it easier for so re really understanding what your customers want and you know, and then making those changes accordingly and then having everyone, everyone’s going to have a different perspective from different departments.

Wes Chyrchel (00:19:31):
So we’ll say, you know, the eCommerce team, from a product point of view, the marketing team, from a marketing point of view, the CEO from a a a historic point of view, the CEO, you know, he knows the business better than anybody. He’ll say, well, you know, the, the vendor, our manufacturer wants to emphasize this about their product. So maybe we should, you know, that’s cause they know the manufacturers know what products sell the most. So they, they’re going to say, Oh well we drop ship for this particular vendor. Well we sell this many more, you know, of this fire pit. Then this fire pit. Okay, well great. What are, why, why are people buying that one over this other one? Well then put that in the description. You know, this is one reason why it’s, it’s almost sort of like you know, it’s, it’s, it’s being, I, I joke around with the staff sometimes I go, I’m going to play captain obvious right now and just say, you know, the reason why people are buying this is because of this. So let’s highlight that. I mean put that at the top of the bullets, you know, the distribution. So it’s, we, we, we get in our own way a lot. We, we screw it up all the time. Humans, I screw everything up. I think when when,

Jason Tucker (00:20:48):
Speaking of screwing up the, the, when you, when you have a new web design that you’re going through or you’re trying to optimize that, the, that design people tend to want to, like you were talking about earlier, be tricky or to do something, you know, something a little bit different or whatever. But I think you could, I think you should really look at what the big guys are doing, what the medium guys are doing with the medium sites are doing, you know, those sorts of things and see what works for them and what doesn’t work for them. So for instance looking at you maybe you don’t need the entire description to be displayed all at once on there and maybe you should have like a more button that’s at the bottom that will then open up an expansion or open up some type of collapsible element to make that get bigger.

Jason Tucker (00:21:34):
So make sure your descriptions have enough information to kind of get the person enticed at the top part of it. And then down below maybe more of the specs and the things that people don’t necessarily need to see when they’re trying to quickly browse through something. Same with like customer reviews. Maybe you should show like the first three or four customer reviews and after that, everything below it should just be under a button that you click on and that expands. And so those are where those mobile first types of ideas come into play. Like you were talking about Bridget, that a website could be built in such a way that the the, the desktop version of the site just has all those expansions already expanded or those collapsible elements already expanded. And then you’re not having to rebuild an entirely new website, but rather you’re rearranging things and reconfiguring things to allow for ease of use, but also just that it, it’s, it’s not so complicated and people, when they’re going on their phone and they’re kind of flipping through everything, they want to be able to flip through everything without having to Dre to kind of dig through all that stuff.

Jason Tucker (00:22:38):
And one last piece is that I’ve always seen is scrollable elements on a website where you have like an iframe which is a scroll within a scroll. Those things are the worst. You want to stay away from those as much as humanly possible. And if you absolutely have to do that, then then you may want to look at maybe the technology that’s being used and see if that’s something that we can fix.

Wes Chyrchel (00:23:02):
Oh yeah, like the map. Yeah, like a map. The map. You’re just right. Worried and finding that there’s a definitely a limit to the amount of texts because even if we do put, you know, the most requested or the most asked about feature at the top bullet of the description, we’re having people that are still buying that product, not reading that at all. And it says, this is, for example, a lot of our stuff is, is, is fairly technical but not that technical. We’re just trying to prevent people from setting themselves on fire. You know, I mean it seems like, yeah. You know, it’s like for natural guests, this is for propane. So people buy it and they’ll say, Hey, this doesn’t work. You know, for my setup. Well on the first line it said it was for natural gas and you’re trying to fit it on a propane tank.

Wes Chyrchel (00:24:01):
And you know, it’s kinda funny cause you just, so we’re people are, do they think that propane is natural gas? No. People know the difference. They just don’t want reading. People read read texts anymore. We’re literally trying to think of symbols that universal symbols that we can start putting in stuff with a big thing, right? Fire running around in circles because people are ordering stuff there. They’re looking at pictures, so that’s the sort of thing order. They look at the picture, they look at the title and they’re not even reading that and then they’re looking at the pictures and then they’re buying and they’re not even reading. Because if you think about it, if you look at how a lot of the product pages are nowadays, it is the title, the pictures, maybe a very brief, some, I’ve even seen some of that sites that don’t even have that much of a description at all.

Wes Chyrchel (00:24:55):
It’s the title, the picture and the buy button and you don’t even have a description is below the buy button. So now people are just, they’ve just gotten used to that and they’re not even something, they order it thinking that that’s what they need and then they get it and they go, Oh, this doesn’t work. So now you’re in a return. So now you’ve created a negative experience because now they go, well it’s your fault, I bought the wrong product, you know. Well stop. Why not? There’s no one subject to themselves, Lysol. It’s never, yes, every covered correctly. You have the people who actually have watched this live or within this week something. I know I was gonna I was wondering how you’re going to fit the Lysol comment and a budget.

Jason Tucker (00:25:45):
What about, what about the, the marketing, the inbound marketing that you have with emails that are being sent better being sent out. That’s part of that mobile first marketing strategy as well. What do you guys doing to make sure that an email is properly formatted that gets somebody to a product or a service or something like that that you guys are providing?

Wes Chyrchel (00:26:08):
I, I, I love email. I really do. I think it’s, it’s fascinating to me because it’s the genre that hasn’t changed since the 90s. I mean you still build emails with tables and stuff like that. When I remember I was at the master with call fans, you know, great images and stuff. It’s so funny cause you know outlook and it’s, it’s mostly because of our email clients, right? Our email clients are so thick and so you can just get, you know, and everyone, you just get an email in your inbox, especially like an Alec and it’s just blank cause it’s all these broken images that Alex says, it’s security risks. We’re not allowing you to, we’re not parsing these images because, or displaying these images because you haven’t allowed us to, you know, click here so the person just sees nothing, you know? Whereas if you just want to use text, everything would’ve been fine. But that’s crazy time. I know text text equals bad Bridget texts.

Jason Tucker (00:27:09):
No, I had this issue when I was helping somebody, you know, when I was working part time and they’re like, that’s not beautiful enough. That’s, I still travel. I’m like, do you have images turned on in your email? Oh wait, we don’t, these are just anybody else.

Wes Chyrchel (00:27:26):
Yeah. Well you know what, it’s funny because we’ve had to do that. We’ve had, I mean we use even, it’s gotten a little bit better with CSS. I mean, you know, so our emails work really good for us. And you know, with email you also have to it’s, it’s counter intuitive, right? Because you think the more you send to the wider audience, the better your return will be. And it’s the exact opposite. It’s the smaller segmented audiences that really bring in your, you know, that are your fans and they’re the ones. And then now you can segment buyers based upon what they purchased. So it’s just you’re sending out lists, you could billion different segments and that’s the way it should be. Instead of this one big massive, you know, to your email list, which will probably just end up getting you blacklisted if you just keep doing that.

Wes Chyrchel (00:28:20):
So so for us it’s being short and concise and, and we’re, and keep it very, you know, you’re not going to hit a home run every email, but with any of those emails we send out, it’s all about consistency. Seasonality, you know, sending out the information that people are gonna want for that season. And almost every businesses ha has some sort of seasonality component about what people are thinking about at that time of the year. So you need to address those. You know, if you’re writing about winter stuff, you know, if you’re, let’s say you’re writing a blog and you’re talking about, you know, winter stuff and staying inside and it’s springtime, you know, you’re not going to get the attention you really want from your readers, you know. But so same thing with products. I mean we, we’re, we’re offering information about what people can do, being outside is to this time of year and take advantage of that. So that’s how and where, and we don’t try to hammer them with, with sales, cause we don’t want to be the, the sales shop all the time. We just want to have good content and give people solutions really, you know, an intro, introduce them to new ideas. So that’s what we use. Yeah.

Jason Tucker (00:29:29):
Well, I want to transition real quick into something that we want you to love as well. And that’s our patriotic count. We recently launched a patriotic count and Bridget says, we soft opened it. I like

Jason Tucker (00:29:41):
That. We definitely soft open that Patreon account and got, got our our, you know, set everything up so that way our patrons are able to kind of take a look at what we have to offer and what things we have going on. I was trying to come up with like, how do you, how do you name, and again, I’m kinda get a little bit inside baseball here, but like I, it’s like how do you name a tier, you know, in Patreon and you know, since we’re a marketing show, I want to kind of, you know, kind of show the backside of like how this thing is set up. It’s like, how do you name a tier for something called WPwatercooler so what we did is we started going through and naming when I say we, it’s a Royal we, so it was myself, I’m sorry, going through the different the different types of ways that you can describe water.

Jason Tucker (00:30:27):
And so I have the small water cup, I have the medium water cup. I have the large water cup and then I also have the water bottle. And then I have the five gallon water bottle and I have water bottle delivery. So I want to let you know that for $5 a month that you can become a small water cup and all the way up to a $75 a month being a five gallon water bottle. Or if you’re someone who wants to do one of our ads, you can check that out as well. For $200 a month and you could be a water bottle delivery. So I’m kind of playing around with this a little bit and seeing how this would work. Each tier is a different kind of cool things that we’re able to do for you. If you’re wanting to be mentioned, we can add you at the end title card.

Jason Tucker (00:31:12):
So you can be mentioned at the end of the show. We’re, we’re playing out a whole bunch of kind of really fun things here and we’re hoping that that you’ll enjoy it as well. You can go to, go over to our website over at and take a look at the different offerings that we have available to you and also be able to you know, request some offerings. If there’s something interesting that you’re wanting to do or wanting us to do we’d definitely do that as well. I will say just to kind of highlight one of them for the $75 a month tier Bridget and I will actually review your website in a recorded video and we’ll send it back to you privately with our candid thoughts. So something like that is interesting to you. Then we would love to do that for you. And I’m for $75 a month, you’re helping us out. You’re helping us out with transcriptions of our show and being able to make sure that we can kind of make everything work. So,

Jason Tucker (00:32:06):
But it’s not just transcriptions for transcription sake. It’s also for captioning, which is, makes our shows accessible to a wider audience or the deaf and hard of hearing community. And it does come at a cost. So it’s just been on our hearts. And when I say ours, I mean Jason’s but like, no, I started doing it, but I, I was doing it the hard way. And of course he found a tool, but it costs like mine was just doing it. And so it, you know, it’s, it’s the truth. And actually I have a niece who’s deaf and hard of hearing and I have a really good friend who’s, who reads lips and he’s actually having trouble now going to the store because everybody’s mouths are cupboard. Wow. Yeah. So like these are things we don’t think about until they come home. Kind of like being mobile first for the visually challenged.

Jason Tucker (00:33:13):
Yeah. So go, can I take a look at that? That’s a

Wes Chyrchel (00:33:18):
I liked the way you guys did that. Very cool.

Jason Tucker (00:33:21):
Thanks. Well, Jason’s always doing cool stuff. He says it’s not a marketer, but then I’m like, hello. The small water cup. It’s so cute. I love it.

Jason Tucker (00:33:33):
The graphics on the side are pretty good too. I, I spent some time doing it. So it was fun.

Jason Tucker (00:33:38):
Yeah. But so that’s the thing. It’s like mobile responsive. We did test it at, so like this thing with gosh, I, I’ve, I do want to talk to you about emails at some point, but, okay. So let’s get back to the brick and mortars. Like, let’s get back to the kind of timely, like, Oh my gosh, I still need to make money. How long is my restaurant going to be closed? How long is my T shirt shop? Can I be closed? My, even the spy go to for massages, they have skincare products, they just want Shopify, you know, that was easy for them. Like what are some of the options for these people who are like, Oh, I need some revenue.

Wes Chyrchel (00:34:28):
I think, you know, my, you know, my wife has a hair salon and so she obviously she can’t work and we’re even wondering how it’s going to be in the future. Cause she was looking at some of the guidelines for how these hair salons will reopen. And some of them have to, it’s going to completely change. They have to where you’re basically almost prepping some of these clients for surgery. They have to provide gowns and masks and hair nets and all kinds of stuff. And that’s gonna, you know, for, that’s just going to be passed onto the customer. So now that’s gonna increase prices of haircare and things like that. But one of the things that I thought was kind of cool was for people’s roots. My, my wife put together color kits and she was putting those color kits and sending them out to her, her clients, and then she’d create a zoom meeting and have them and literally show them how to apply the color and cheap little bottles with, you know, she went out and bought these little bottles and showed them how to mix everything and just, just apply it to their roots just to kind of prolong it for a little longer until they could until they could come into the salon.

Wes Chyrchel (00:35:41):
So I think that, you know, communicating heavily with your customers especially right away, you know, letting, letting the customers know that you’re open and know that you’re available. And also being unique in the sense that of what you’re offering. I think you know, just kind of like how the office, you know, the, the remote isn’t the office and understanding, you know, I think base camp and rework, they always talk about this as the problems come when people try to simulate the office, not the office. So why are you operating as such? You know? And so I think that if you have a brick and mortar that’s trying to keep the same thing going and saying, Oh, we’re, we’re, we’re still our brick and mortar store, you know, so one of the things that, what are we’re doing is, is that we’re really trying to promote you know, cause we do have a small showroom and a lot of a lot of old school companies, manufacturers will require you to have a showroom to carry the product, even if you’re drop shipping, which is really weird.

Wes Chyrchel (00:36:44):
I don’t, and I’ve seen that across the board in several industries because they just want to make sure you’re a real company. But I think that’s gonna probably change quite a bit. Now. One of the things that you can do in those instances and maybe satisfy the requirement for some of these manufacturers would be to say, just offer in store pickup. So you could say, Hey, you know, we are doing, we’re doing our version of takeout, you know, so if you want us, if you want us to come by here and pick the product up and we’ll prepare it for you. And that way you can’t have that face to face if you will, if you want to do that. You know, and then the brick and mortars especially, you know, we talked about the, the restaurants and things like that, they, they need to, they need to really go out of their way and maybe even break down the menu into smaller chunks. Laina quick bites or reevaluate it so that people can get to their information quickly. I think when, you know, if you have a big menu and you’re just going through pages and pages and pages, you know, maybe it’s sort of like, you know, quick dinners or things like that, Emily or something. I think they need to kind of reevaluate what the needs of the customer customer

Jason Tucker (00:37:52):
Are now. Oh, I’ve definitely seen, sorry. Sorry. Go for it. The one down the street sees like taco Tuesday, 20 tacos and pitchers of margaritas, you know. Yeah. But can I just talk, can I just talk about PCI compliance a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So one of the restaurants I called, here’s my credit card number, but other than that, no, I’m fine because I’m not really that paranoid, but in my brain I was like, you should just have me PayPal you. Yeah. Right. Why am I giving you my car? I know that this is not PCI compliant. Right. They, they’re exposing themselves.

Wes Chyrchel (00:38:38):
Oh yeah. They’re asking for trouble. Yeah. So, and it’s, it’s gotten easier. I mean, you can sign up with a square account or a PayPal account pretty quickly. They should be, they should easily be doing that. Even Venmo, you know, has the ability to pay their customers. Even they, they could do that over the phone. It’d be better than just taking some of [inaudible]

Jason Tucker (00:38:57):
Or just say Venmo me. So one of the Instagram accounts I follow, and I thought this was the most clever thing is the bartender and they have, they were opening up another, they were opening up a brand new section that was outside in Anaheim right when this happened. Okay. Because it was for st Patrick’s day. Remember they got shut down right before st Patrick’s day and his Instagram account is that one, J U, a N that Juan bartender. Very clever. So at birth he goes, Hey, if you Venmo me your email address and $20, and he said this, this, this email so that we could Venmo him. He would give us his signature strawberry syrup recipe and five cocktail recipes every week. Wow. That’s an easy win. But it was one of a secure, cause there’s been Mo I call the, the really fancy restaurant. They’re like, well you could give us the, the, I’m not gonna call them out, but you could give us the fo your credit card over the phone or when you come. And I’m like, you know, we’re all touching it. You go through McDonald’s, they have their gloves on and they’re touching it and they’re giving it back to you, but they’re not changing their gloves. Okay. I’m not that paranoid, even though I have an autoimmune disease because I know for me, I need to be exposed to this kind of stuff. But I’m thinking, cause I used to spend a lot of time in hospitals. You’re not changing your gloves after every single interaction. There is no point having gloves on. Like I’ll just let go. Right.

Wes Chyrchel (00:40:38):
Well that’s I, that’s what I’ve been saying. Those, those masks in those gloves aren’t to protect you. It’s to protect them. Right.

Jason Tucker (00:40:44):
So yeah, but if you touch something that somebody else touched and now you touch your face with the gloves on, it doesn’t really matter. Right. My point is like there’s the germ section, but let’s talk about the, you know, so lately I’ve seen them where they put the machine out like this and then you just go like that. That’s smarter, like in a drive through.

Wes Chyrchel (00:41:04):
Well, Jay has that brass thing now. I started showing up. Well, you know, it’s, it’s, I, I, it’s like a little over what was at home Depot and all those places were open now. And it was great because, you know, I love to being able to order ahead and then pick stuff up on the site, you know? And then I don’t have anything like you said [inaudible]

Jason Tucker (00:41:33):
But if they, but if they don’t have that if they if they sign up for square, I know square knows my phone number. Can I give them my phone number and then could you do it that way?

Wes Chyrchel (00:41:47):
You know what, I, my wife uses square every day and so I haven’t, I haven’t used square. I know there’s some restaurants that you know, yeah, you just, you know, even like when I ordered pizza the other day, I use the slice, the business listing and that was brilliant. So ISIS cause the Google has it built them in their business listings for pizza places now. And the, it was so well done. I was, I was like anybody that’s not, you know, and I don’t know if it went to services, I don’t know if these pizza places had to, how much manual work they had to do our slice as part of their service. They build all this menu out from it, but it was so well done. So easy. Two buttons, pickup or delivery. Right. And it was just, it was great. I loved it.

Jason Tucker (00:42:33):
I mean that is a good answer. Your question about the square thing Bridget, remember cause anyone could just type in [inaudible] number. Oh yeah, yeah. We have to look it up. I just know like, you know, Mastro, right, but so that makes sense. But like that’s just what I’m thinking. Like, I could do door dash, but you know that that’s

Wes Chyrchel (00:42:56):
Is that I don’t think, you know, or is a great, a buddy of mine and I think I, I, I have commented on about this before, you know, things are going to be different now and after nine 11, a great example of that is after nine 11, everything was different. You don’t go border plane the same as you did, you know, before nothing went back to pre nine 11 the way it was. Everything. There was certain things that just changed. And so there are things that are going to change after this. And if you’re not a company that’s willing to take the time and invest, you will go out of business. People want certain [inaudible] and if they feel that you’re not even the little simple things like that, it’s like you’re making me touch this keypad that everybody touched before me. And now it’s consciously in my mind who, who, who’s not thinking of that?

Wes Chyrchel (00:43:40):
You go to the gas pump and it’s on your mind, you know? But if there’s even just little things like the antibacterial soap, it Arco stations or did it, if they have little, you know, that are right there next to the pump and, and hand wipes and towels, those little things, those little extra steps. Where do you think I’m going to go get get my gas next time. You know, it’s, it’s, and so I think, and those are a little small steps. I don’t, yes, you’re, you may give a little bit more away for every sale, but the slice thing, I just, I ordered it and walked up and I got my stuff and I didn’t have to touch anything or I just said the high order for West and they go, okay, here you go. And then I just took it. That’s great. Why? You know, it should be like that. So, and mobile payments, man, well payments are going to go through the roof, right? I mean, I mean even I’ve heard of even people trying to pay with cash and people are looking at cash going, nah, your phone or you know, and you’re like, wow. And so even having cash isn’t going to be cool anymore. You know,

Jason Tucker (00:44:47):
I think it’s hilarious in a lot of ways because I’ve known this for years, living with an auto immune to see his, I’m like welcome to my life everyone. But this is the tool or tip of the week time and I am wearing orange today we’re going to talk about WPandUP. They are an organization that supports positive mental health in the remote work community. The team behind WP and up come from a place of experience. We understand the challenges, the extremes highs and the extreme lows of running WordPress focused businesses because we are WordPress businesses, owners ourselves. We understand the potential for isolation, loneliness, anxiety, depression because we’ve experienced it and had it firsthand. You can find out more actually and you can be, it’s fine. You can donate to them and whatever. It’ll be redirect and I’m sure they have a 301. But the thing is that WP and up is a great organization.

Jason Tucker (00:46:02):
They started by sponsoring a bunch of meetups in the UK and then ended up realizing, well, we’re all a worldwide, you know, organization. So if you are experiencing any issues of isolation, loneliness go to there, how are you a channelon Slack or just click join on their website there is someone there all the time to talk to everyone there. So yeah and it’s really, it’s a great place. I they’re my client. I’ve been doing some writing there and there’s a short series of devotionals light reading for the heavy heart that I wrote about half of it’s going to turn into an ebook for our fundraising efforts. I hope the books, well, this one is best for a client, but, so this is what I’m going to do finally. And this is why this is my Tool or Tip Of The Week, which is a perfect segue.

Jason Tucker (00:47:06):
Kindle Create. Okay. The first two books I wrote, I used and it was a major heartache, headache, whatever. Okay. I have a hard time with print because you know how hard it is to proofread your own work. We talked about that early on the show, but Kindle create, there is no upfront cost now that’s already better than It’s a software that you just download. Just, I, I hate saying that it’s a software that you download onto your computer. I don’t have Microsoft word, I will never have Microsoft word. So I use Google docs. I wrote it in there. They have a, they have a pride and prejudice download that you can get for the formatting because it’s the ugliest formatting you’ll ever see in your life. Just write the way they want you to. Right, right, right, right, right. So that was a lot of puns and Hama homonyms anyway, so and then, and then you export it from your Google drive after two of your friends have proof-read it twice.

Jason Tucker (00:48:24):
They export from your Google drive as a word document. Now when you open the Kindle, create program, it will ask you for this file and then it uploads it. And then you go through and you format it. They have a few templates. You can add at that time, you can end up preface a forward title, pages, acknowledgement, dedication, Oh, sorry. Acknowledgements in the back acknowledgement about the author of the books, things like that are in the back of the book. And at the front is tile page. The the other thing that’s super cool, which Lulu used to make you pay for is

Jason Tucker (00:49:04):
Amazon and Kindle create, we’ll assign you an ESPN number. Huge, huge. It’s very expensive otherwise, well at least to me it is. So this was my COBIT project. I was like, okay, I’m just going to filing, you know, not blog about this, I’m just going to write it and you know, get it done before the 30th. So what happens is after you kind of format it, add your before and your after, then it exports it as a Kindle, create file, and then you upload it and they do all the things like co design, your cover, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And then I used Unsplash for the images, but they have an image gallery or you could do it like, so my, you know, our friend Chris Badgett did it this way. He did a a book a day and it was like this, but I wanted my book to the smaller, so I picked this one.

Jason Tucker (00:50:01):
So on the Kindle it really doesn’t matter, but then you go after you finish that, then you, cause because people have been asking me, that’s why I’m telling you it’s a little bit longer than I should. So then after that, then it asks you about print. So, and then you upload that same manuscript. Now that’s why I’m like, Oh, okay, I did this wrong because I didn’t care about widow and orphan projection because I knew it’s gonna. It’s gonna make its own breaks depending upon the size of your device, if you have the Kindle or that phone or a tablet or whatever. So I’m gonna go back in today and fix that. But again, and then it listed on Amazon, it takes 72 hours to approve it. It can be a cookbook, it can be an art book, you know you decide what tier of profit you want, 35% or 70.

Jason Tucker (00:50:56):
You decided the price has to be at least two 99. And then, and you can always splits with it because even the, the eBooks I had from Lulu, I put on Kendall and I, I was like, Oh, that’s way too expensive for that dumb book or whatever. And I just lowered the price to $4 just because it was something I wrote for myself, you know. Anyway, the point being is that there is no upfront cost. That’s awesome. Which is amazing. So you could just go in there and then print on demand. If you want to buy author copies, you can. Then if you’re like, this is your thing, then you can do like, Oh buy it for me and I’ll sign it or something. I’m not doing that. But you can Kindle create. That’s my tour tip of the week. That’s great. Sorry I was trying to get it all and make sure you bring your Kindles to the next word camp that Bridget said. She’ll sign the screen for you and be on top of it for all of the books that are on. Well you know what likes the people do a John Maxwell just send out a sticker that’s a signature where I know like tie that makes no sense but whatever. So weird.

Jason Tucker (00:52:14):
Anything you can share with us.

Wes Chyrchel (00:52:16):
You know, let’s see. As far as a final tip goes, you know, I think one of the things that, you know, as far as let’s keep it, the mobile mobile thing goes, you know, I, I always say design from scratch, you know, on mobile. Like get rid of, you know, so you have a site. A lot of times what people end up doing is they, they take their desktop site and this kinda goes back to the mobile first ideology, but, and then they try to take away all the things and make it look work great. I, whenever we are working on a mobile site and a desktop site, we designed completely two different sites and then we, then we merged them. And I think that’s the biggest tip. I think a lot of people, they should start with just two completely different approaches because the mania is going to be different.

Wes Chyrchel (00:53:06):
Everything’s going to be different on a mobile site. So it doesn’t make any sense to start with the desktop and then just take stuff away. Cause it’s it, it’s not the same mindset, you know? So we just start with literally a blank page and add stuff in that way. And then, then what we do is we say, okay, well what, what’s missing? And then we go back to the desktop site and go, Oh yeah, we forgot this. Okay. How are we going to emulate that on the, you know, or do we need to have that, you know, so those are the things that is, and we’re actually a, we’re, we actually treat our mobile site and our desktop site as individual sites per se. So if we revamp stuff on the desktop site, you will make it responsive and things like that. But we’re actually right up now, we’re actually gonna do a full blown mobile audit and just completely redo our mobile experience. Even though we’ve, we, we always keep it up, but every every two years we go back through and we completely redo it and rewrite it or rebuild it. So that’s, that’s what we’re slated for this year. So, but I think starting from scratch my mobile is, is the way to go. Cause you, you, you get kind of a new opportunity and you’re not influenced by the desktop site, which is, that’s the, I think the problem that a lot of people have.

Wes Chyrchel (00:54:28):
What about you Jason? You’re on mute. Okay.

Jason Tucker (00:54:34):
Can you guys hear me? Yeah. Okay, good. I’m just going to tell you, and then I can’t hear anything that you’re saying. I don’t know what happened, but something’s going on. So I’ll let you know about my, my tool or tip of the week is a, a, this is super funny that I’m going and doing this and explaining this. So the the tour tip of the week is a, a, a piece of software that I’ve been playing around with for a little while. We’ve been having some issues at the the church that I work at where we’re having to figure out great ways of getting people to actually be able to use webcams at their desks. So we’re, we’re in this weird situation where we’re about ready to get it started in kind of migrating everybody from a desktop computer to a laptop.

Jason Tucker (00:55:26):
And desktop computers typically don’t come with webcams and they typically don’t come with a a microphone and they most likely don’t even have speakers. So if I’m working in an environment where they don’t want you to use speakers, then you’re not going to have a speaker either. So I’ve been I’ve been kind of digging through different solutions to be able to pull this off. And since I worked for a nonprofit, our ideas to try to make sure that the amount of money that we’re spending on things is is, is the least amount that we’re, you know, that we can spend, be very you know understanding of the types of money that we’re spending and everything like that. So I’m trying to look for software that will kind of do this for me. And I, I’m, I don’t know, I love trying to come up with clever little weird ways of making this happen.

Jason Tucker (00:56:16):
So there’s a company called Kinoni and that’s K I N O N I and probably saying it wrong, but I can’t hear what you’re going to say to me. So you can’t ever correct me. So that’s pretty awesome. So what this, the companies that called that and they make a software called epoch, cam, E P O C cam. And what Epochcam does is it makes it so that you can use your mobile device as the camera. And so what it does is it install software. And it’s funny cause I was trying to finish the installation of the software, which is what kicked me out of the audio cause it’s like, Hey, hit reboot and it’ll you know, and it’s like I don’t want to, we put my computer and I thought I had the software installed. Anyhow. So what this thing does is you run the software on your phone, you run the software on the computer and then if you, if you want, and this is optional, you can also plug the phone into the computer.

Jason Tucker (00:57:13):
So that way it’s using a direct connection to do this. It also works over wifi. So you can do that too. And I’m going to show you real quick as a screen-share the their webpage and other webpage does not show, I mean it’s kinda hard to explain like how this works, but it’s like, here’s a laptop and here’s a computer. And if they’re in the same distance from one another, you can do it this way and you could also plug it in. But the features, the feature list I can kind of run through real fast. So you can use the front camera, you can use the back camera, you can use on a wifi connection. You can use on the USB connection if you’re on an iPhone or an an iPad. And this does work on an iPad as well. You can use the microphone.

Jason Tucker (00:57:55):
If you have the pro version, you can do pinch to zoom or manual focus, flashlight, HDR video, dual cam zoom, adjustable video quality. You can put a watermark on the bottom of it. There are ads on the free version of it. The paid version was fairly cheap, if I remember correctly. It was less than $5, so it’s way cheaper than an actual webcam. They recently updated it so that it allows you to be able to use it through zoom. So if you want to have the green screen thing, which is like, you know, apparently that’s like the only way that you can actually do zoom calls now is if you don’t have a green screen in the background and people freak out. But it does do ’em green-screen. The, the limitation is that it’s only six 40 by four 80 video resolution, which is kinda crappy, but it’s, it’s, it’s as good as you can do with it.

Jason Tucker (00:58:46):
The, the there were showing some different issues on whether or not it works on on a windows computer or a Mac computer. A lot of the computers that I have at my work are windows computers, so we’re okay with having it not work on a Mac. And if you’re on a Mac, you already have a camera anyhow, most likely. So it’s kind of a moot point. So yeah, so you can do all of that and use this if you’re, if you’re looking for a good solution to kind of you know, bridge that gap or if you have a really old, had one laying around here, but a really old USB camera that just really and makes you look awful. You have the best camera that you can ever carry in your pocket with you, which is your, your iPhone or Android device.

Jason Tucker (00:59:30):
Give that shot and check it out and see how that works. Yeah, you gotta check them out. That’s well, I can’t hear you, so I’m just gonna I’m just gonna tell ya. Thank you very much for coming and hanging out with us. We really appreciate it. Bridget, thank you for coming to hanging out with me as well. We’ve, we always have a good time on this show. I wanna let you know, go over to our website over at to learn how to subscribe to this content and all the other stuff that we have going on here. We, we have a lot of fun over on our shows and this is a great way for you to follow along with us. And that’s about it. Thank you very much folks. Talk to y’all later. Thanks guys. Talk to you later.

Episode Info

Podchaser - Smart Marketing Show
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T. K.

EP156 – Mobile-First Marketing Strategies…

Wes Chyrchel

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It’s hard to find experienced people on this subject,
but you sound like you know what you’re talking about!


Wes Chyrchel

Know it. Live it. Love it.

Wes Chyrchel

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This Article was mentioned on

Bridget Willard

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Bridget Willard

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Daksh Jaiswal

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T. K.

EP156 – Mobile-First Marketing Strategies…

Wes Chyrchel

This Article was mentioned on

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