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Let’s go back to basics for a moment. What is a landing page? Where do you build one? Also, what are the best practices for landing page to achieve your goal?

In this episode, Jen Miller of Next Door Marketer join Jason and Bridget to let us in on her industry secrets. You will not want to miss this episode.

“All of our marketing is relationship marketing.” Jen Miller

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Landing Pages are Stories

Landing pages should be easy to read, informative, and help your customers learn more about you. What is the solution you have and how will you help them?

“You want to tell a story. Build from there.” Jen Miller

What is a Landing Page?

“A landing page is a page on a website or maybe even an independent page on a different platform that you direct people to, to have them sign up for a specific product, service or subscription. And a lot of times landing pages come through social media either through advertising or through a specific post that’s shared and/or they come through an email campaign or they come through you know, television, radio, postcard and that instead of a general website.” Jen Miller

Well, that was easy.

Basically any page on your website or even vanity url that has a call to action is a landing pages. Realtors often use the address as a vanity url or specific one-page website, Jen says.

One-page landing pages work very well with postcard campaigns. If you pair it with an email campaign be aware of your timing and the current world situation.

“It was a different world six months ago. There should be a little bit of room to consider everyone’s financial situation. You should spend an hour on it and ask yourself, ‘is what I’m doing appropriate?'” Jen Miller

Landing Pages Are For a Specific Audience

The point of the landing page is to reach a specific audience for a specific reason. Maybe the listeners on ESPN want to hire a HR agency. That landing page should be catered to ESPN’s audience.

“You want something target to the people you’re trying to reach.” Jen Miller

So, if you’re using the landing page in a coordinated ad campaign, it is important to tailor the copy on that page to that audience. Don’t send a generic landing page to everyone. Find a format that works and then duplicate it for different audiences.

Don’t forget video, too.

“Putting video on a landing page just works.” Jen Miller

What is the Best Landing Page Tool?

As with most tools in business, the best tool is the one you use consistently. But go look at landing pages you like — as a consumer. Get tips from that.

  • Headline
  • Text
  • Video
  • Text
  • CTA

“There are concepts that are universal to great landing pages.” Jen Miller

Video keeps your audience on your page longer. If it is longer than a minute, consider using a transcript or time-stamped bullet points. Your video better bet amazing if you want people to watch it.

Test Your Landing Page

You should test your landing page on multiple devices. This is especially important for font size, positioning, and popups.

“Look at your site as a mobile user on multiple devices.” Jen Miller

Don’t Get Lost in Analytics

The more you use landing pages, the more your bounce rate will increase. This is because the landing page isn’t meant for navigation. Instead, Jen Miller suggests thinking more about your conversion rate than your bounce rate.

“If the reason why they are bouncing is because they bought a product; that is a win.” Jen Miller

Many landing pages have long-form content to keep the users on the page. They can even contain 2,500 words. But note that if your plan to drive traffic from social, use short copy. If you drive traffic from an email campaign, longer is better.

Tool or Tip of the Week

This Tool or Tip of the week is brought to you by Fat Dog Creatives. If you’re a service-based business serious about growth, Rhonda Negard is your rebranding and web design thinker, a strategic design specialist. Check out her website at

Jen recommends Marco Polo. She thinks this is an excellent zoom replacement for quick team-building and even client-facing updates. Also, she has one earbud in and one being charged at all times. Now, that’s a great tip.

Jason recommends Caption This. Record and have your captioning happen as you talk. Save it and use it for Instagram or Facebook Stories and more!

Bridget recommends the “Curio App;” listen to the articles you like at a great subscription price of $8/month.

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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker (00:00:01):
Hey, what’s up everyone? This is Jason Tucker and this is WPwatercooler’s, The WordPress Marketing Show. That doesn’t work, Bridget. We’ll have to fix that.

Bridget Willard (00:00:09):
The WordPress Marketing Show on WPwatercooler.

Jason Tucker (00:00:15):
I know while I don’t have it written down that way, I’ve said number 155 landing pages, best practices. Let’s see here. We have Jen Miller’s going to be on the show today. Bridget, it’s going to be on the show today. I am on the show today, but before we get into introducing ourselves and all that fun stuff, I want to let you know that this episode of WPwatercooler is brought or do if you Watercooler’s WPblab, not WPblab anymore. Oh my gosh. Bridget, my brain is on fire.

Jason Tucker (00:00:47):
These guys right here ServerPress are sponsoring us, go check us out. Go check them out over at They make local WordPress development easy. They’ve been sponsoring us for quite a few years now and they’ve been doing some amazing stuff over at their company. They don’t just build ServerPress. They also build another product called WPsitesync. And if you’ve never used WPsitesync, you should, if you’re not a developer, it’s totally a non developer friendly. It’s one of those things where you could install it and run it and it will still let you be able to kind of send out all of your updates and all of your stuff. So although a lot of products that are out there where it will look like it’s a developer only type product and it’s, this is not one of those products that you have to be a developer to use it so feel free to go take a look at their stuff over at as well as I really enjoy it. I think it’s a great product. I use it on a couple of my clients instances and setups and we’re loving it. So go check them out over at I know you’re laughing at me because it’s non developer, but it’s true. It’s one of those products that can be used regardless of your developer or not. And it sounds very developer and it’s not developer. It’s, it’s, it can be use everyone.

Bridget Willard (00:02:05):
Peter Piper picked a Peck of pickled peppers. How many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick? There’s too many W’s in WordPress

Jason Tucker (00:02:14):
there are too many W’s in WordPress. Exactly. So Bridget, tell us about yourself.

Bridget Willard (00:02:20):
Hey everybody. I’m a social media marketer and copywriter for WordPress products. The agency’s my new ebook for small businesses to help you with your content is available. Well for sale on my website, it’s only eight pages because I don’t sell fluff.

Jason Tucker (00:02:38):
Ooh, awesome. I’m Jason Tucker. You can find me over @jasontucker on Twitter. My website is And I do this show as well as another show called WPwatercooler. And this week on WPwatercooler, we’re going to be talking about misconceptions and the myriad of misconceptions in WordPress. We thought we’d take it down to like the ultra basics and just be like, why you should use WordPress or maybe why you shouldn’t use WordPress. And then it’s misconceptions and things that, you know, people may be Googling and trying to figure out. So we thought we would just kind of break all of that and say, Hey, just watch this episode. It’ll explain to you whether or not you should be using WordPress. So that’s a for day por I’m Jen Miller. How are you doing?

Jen Miller (00:03:25):
I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on the show today.

Jason Tucker (00:03:28):
Folks. If you, if you don’t know Jen Miller, Jen Miller is the person that we talk about quite a bit on the show here where we, we call her producer Jen. And the idea is that a, is that a, Jen, Bridget and I, we pretty much stay in this little, you know, a Facebook messenger chat room type thing and we just bounce stuff each off of each other all day long. And sometimes it’s, it’s personal, sometimes it’s professional. A lot of times it’s about this show.S

Bridget Willard (00:03:58):
She’s literally giving us ideas. So we gave her that title, not in quotes, but for real. And she’s like, you should have Michelle Keefer on the show. Oh, good idea. Jen. I’ll messenge her. That’s Jen Miller.

Jason Tucker (00:04:14):
I’m Jen Miller. You know, she, she used to be right around us. We’d all be at the same meetups, we’d all do this stuff. Then, you know, she got smart and moved out of California and I totally get it. So

Bridget Willard (00:04:27):
She’s ahead of the curve. I again!

Jen Miller (00:04:31):
I’m now in Arizona, loving it here. I’m already active in the community. We actually did one of the only WordCamps that was physical in 2020. So pretty fun. Yeah, it was a cool, cool time. And in California I was known as Needsomeonetoblog. Right. That was my what everybody knew me as. And now that I’m in Arizona, I’ve restructured my company and we’re Next Door Marketer because we do so much more than blogging. And so what we’re trying to do is help people to reach the people next door to them their local markets on a variety of levels and with copywriting, social media, email marketing, whatever it is that our clients need, we help them find the solutions.

Jason Tucker (00:05:20):
I love that. That’s awesome. Yeah.

Jen Miller (00:05:23):
And you want to know how the, how the name Next Door Marketer came about?

Jason Tucker (00:05:26):
Of course we do.

Jen Miller (00:05:28):
Okay. So my my next door neighbor when I lived in Huntington beach Richie Blake was talking to his son one day and I heard the story from his son and he made a reference to the fact that you never know what the people, you know, what people do for a living until you start asking and start looking at their lives and figuring them out. And he said like, take Jen Miller for instance. She was two doors down from us. You know, she has a business that employs people all over the world and you know, that she started it from basically nothing and has grown in the last six years. And so he was telling his son his story. So his son came over and he’s like, tell me about your business. And it, my, and I just thought, you’re right. You know, it’s, it’s the people next door who make differences in our lives that we don’t necessarily even know what they’re doing. You know, we’re friends, we’re neighbors. And I just thought as I wanted to share my expertise, I want to start with the people who are right front of me. And so that’s where, where we’re the Next Door Marketer idea came from.

Bridget Willard (00:06:37):
That’s awesome Jen, because you’re getting a better response than I am. My neighbor literally asked me two days ago, what is it that you’re doing sitting at your computer all day? Cause I’m right here where everybody is, the walks up the stairs. And I said, well basically I do social media for people. And she said they paid to do that.

Jen Miller (00:07:01):

Jason Tucker (00:07:01):

Jason Tucker (00:07:03):
Okay mom. That’s definitely a, that’s funny. Wow.

Bridget Willard (00:07:09):
I don’t understand. You know, it became a very long conversation. Ended with, I put words on the internet.

Jason Tucker (00:07:20):
Oh man. Well speaking of putting words on the internet, we were going to be talking about landing pages today with Jen and we wanted to, we wanted to kind of go through, what’s the landing page? Why do you need a landing page? How we should start with landing pages and kind of getting all that figured out. So how do you guys, or how do you gals want to kind of navigate this?

Bridget Willard (00:07:41):
So like can you define for us just in case some of us are self-taught, you know, developers doing their own business, making products. This in the context of small businesses within the WordPress and software ecosystem Jen, like a lot of us are self-taught. So could you just for the clarity of the conversation, define what is Landing Page?

Jen Miller (00:08:09):
A landing page is a page on a website or maybe even an independent page on a different platform that you direct people to, to have them sign up for a specific product, service or subscription. And a lot of times landing pages come through social media either through advertising or through a specific post that’s shared and or they come through an email campaign or they come through you know, television, radio, postcard and that instead of a general website, a landing page has a specific intention, a specific action you want the client to take when they get there. And so all of the content on that page is directed towards getting them to push that button of fill in the form, et cetera.

Bridget Willard (00:09:03):
That’s very comprehensive. You know, I listen to a lot of ESPN radio lately and I keep hearing these commercials, or the newest one was a and you know, at first I was like, why are you doing that? But you know, what like why does somebody say it that way? Why do they, why don’t they just say, what do they say? Bambee.Com/Espn

Jen Miller (00:09:37):
Part of the reason they’re saying that is because they want to direct you to that specific page so that for ESPN listeners, there is an offer that is completely geared towards them versus just landing on the normal Bambi page. Another way that some people handle it especially like in real estate, which I do a lot of work in the real estate space, is we make single property landing pages. So we will use the as the URL. So that not only will it work in search engines, but it helps people remember which property it was that they saw. And that is something that I really recommend, especially if people are doing postcard campaigns, is that you just get the domain, you know, you can pick up a domain for very little money and it definitely adds that more local feel to to the landing page. It makes it feel like it is directed to that person when it speaks directly to them. Now that you mentioned what is happening there is is trying to show their entire, like all their offerings, but they’re saying if you go to slash ESPN, we have something just for you listeners. And so they’re trying to help you and make you feel like you’re in a special club.

Bridget Willard (00:11:05):
But on the backside of that, isn’t it to prove whether or not the money they’re wasting with the Disney corporation was worth it?

Jen Miller (00:11:15):
Yeah. Well that, that definitely can be tracked that way. They could probably [inaudible]. Yeah. But that’s, that’s really not the, cause they could do one, two, three, you know, slash one two, three. Or they could do, like I said, a vanity URL and have that same result. But because they’re doing slash ESPN, they’re trying to identify with that. So more than, you know, we never want to do something for a single reason. Right. We want it to double count. So of course on the back end we want to see how many people are coming from that advertising that they’re doing or that aren’t coming from the advertising defending. Did you go to the page, Bridget?

Bridget Willard (00:11:58):
Oh, of course. I went to the page and I was like, wow, I want to connect with this guy at on LinkedIn and Oh, he’s in Venice. Wow. He’s really handsome. Like so many levels. Yeah. And then I thought like, who need conversion right there? Who do I know that needs an HR service for $99 a month or press products and services. So of course I sent them a tweet and I told them, I know a really good podcast bond. They didn’t respond, but you know, they don’t have good people doing their social media because they should have at least said, Oh, thanks or DMS and then ignore me after that. But you know, you got to at least do the showing. But anyway, so like I just thought that’s what rolls off my head. And the thing is with like those postcard campaigns or a lot of times what, what people do for our, like our podcast when we have sponsors is they give us a specific URL. That’s more like with UTM codes, right? So we put that in the show notes, but the listeners aren’t getting a [inaudible] dot com slash Jason Tucker, but you hear that all the time on radio, on radio shows, you know, or I’m technical podcast who let go, you know, go to go to my page or click keyword bill handle or potato duh, duh, duh, duh, whatever. Right. so making that landing page sounds like a really important part of a campaign that isn’t just written, right, Jen [inaudible].

Jen Miller (00:13:41):
Yeah. Oh, definitely. It’s, it’s an ongoing campaign. It’s part of a campaign because typically if you do click that button right, you fill out that form, then you’re going to be put into more pieces of their funnel. So you’re going to get directed content specific to that page that you signed up on. That’s the whole book.

Bridget Willard (00:14:05):
I’ll tell you how not to do it. I have anecdotes. Listen, you guys, I signed up for these free classes for You know how I love Moss? I started watching whiteboard Fridays in 2015 like every Friday. I mean, I was, do you know how sad I was when I found out Rand Fishkin was married? Like I just say like super handsome, but listen, so smart because I’m a visual learner and I am an auditory, primarily auditory, right? So I go through this course, I’m like 15 minutes in and I, no, no, no, no, no. It wasn’t even a 24 hours later. I already got an email from Moz asking for me to sign up for Moz pro.

Jen Miller (00:14:53):
I’m like, that’s too much too soon. Right? So can you talk a little bit about the timing of how you follow up with people who go to your landing page? Well, it’s an individual business decision, right? There are proponents of the email everyday system there and they will say you need to be giving an offer every day and sending out another basically a landing page in email, right, where it’s long form content that has multiple places to click to continue to boost up the offering. Then there are other people who would tell you to do nurture campaigns where when someone signs up, you moving softly and every three to five days you send an email and you try to build rapport so that that person trusts you obviously with the mosque campaign that you were talking about that violated your trust.

Jen Miller (00:15:58):
That’s an, you know, a lot of people will instantly unsubscribe when they’re hit too heavy. In the beginning I just signed up for a service and I love the service, but they email me selling a different service and telling me I have until midnight, you know, every single day. And it’s made me want to cancel the initial service that I’m paying for because I don’t want to be on that list. And and so especially now when people are pretty much trapped in their homes to be so careful with that, it’s a different, I think it was a different world six months ago where we had so many things distracting us. And so if someone sent an email, you’d be like, Oh wow, they’re in there on their marketing game, you know, and you may not respond to it, but then when you got the next one, a couple of days later, you’d be like, Oh, I should look at this.

Jen Miller (00:16:52):
I forgot about it. Whereas now it seems so invasive because we’re in our homes and then suddenly we’re getting targeted like no one’s business, you know, and multiple times a day even or every day is just too much. And especially when it’s salesy because there should be a little bit of room for different people’s financial situations to be questioned. And for companies even to evaluate that not everybody’s going to be spending right now. I was just talking to a real estate agent yesterday and normally I am all about the first click. You know, if someone searches on your website, we want that site to convert. So let’s go ahead and have them sign up, ask them to register right away. And I told him, I said, right now you have people who are stuck in their homes who are looking at properties and it’s fun for them.

Jen Miller (00:17:47):
So let’s make it fun. Let’s take away registration. And in three months you can put it back on. But right now let’s just build that rapport with the client, you know? And so context businesses can change how they’re doing it on the fly. A lot of us are very agile and can do that and need to be receptive and think about it. And if you’re a business and you haven’t thought about how you’re going to change your marketing for coven, you really should spend at least an hour on it, you know, and consider is what I’m doing. Still appropriate because we don’t know how long this is gonna last. But there’s a pretty good indication it’s going to be at least a couple more months and we may have a return cycle. And if that’s the case, then we need to be preparing our marketing because that’s what people are seeing. And so it’s super important because all they’re seeing of us right now. Seriously. I know I’m going to let juice as a question, but just as an aside, yesterday I saw an ad on Facebook for dating

Speaker 4 (00:18:53):

Jen Miller (00:18:54):
Cognitive dissonance. Anyone? Well actually, so it’s funny cause you’ve, you’ve been on I think you told me. Oh path.

Jason Tucker (00:19:05):
So, but they liked that one. I love it.

Jen Miller (00:19:07):
So, so there’s a group called meat that’s actually doing like zoom calls for dating, like speed dating or something, I guess. And I was thinking about it and just again, you know, I guess that could make a lot of sense right now, you know, because you’re trapped at home, but anything that’s going to try to get people to meet in social arrangements like you’re talking about that you know with a dating ad from two months ago isn’t going to work right now.

Jason Tucker (00:19:37):
So what about the copy on that that landing page, does that copy need to reflect the same or the same part of the story that you’re telling them, the email that’s been sent to go to this landing page or can it be reused over and over again? I mean, I’ve seen people where they, you know, I’ll log into somebody’s WordPress site cause you know, I’m working on their website and I’ll go in and I’ll look in their pages and I just see one landing page after another. And every single one of them is different. Like every single landing page is different and they’re all coming in from different places and they’re all, almost, none of them are ever reused. Are they spending like too much time and energy? Like building out those landing pages for that or should they be reusing some of those landing pages? Just more of a, an a costs savings matter like,

Jen Miller (00:20:30):
So I think that they can reuse the setup when they’ve found a landing page that works, right? So the actual layout, so you’re not having to, you’ll have different images, you’ll have different headlines. You want something that’s completely targeted to the audience that trying to reach. So you’re going to change the actual content on the page. But that gravity forum that you set up once, you know, you can duplicate and change as needed to match the colors or images on the page. The, but the copy, yeah, that should definitely be different. And the email campaigns really should be tailored to that particular industry. So let’s say you’re reaching out to accountants for a website build. Okay. You’re trying to get people in. You want to have a a email campaign that follows that landing page that is speaking to them. Now you can take that same land and that same email campaign and that same landing page and switch it over to mechanics and just make a few changes in the content and have something very similar. One of the things that you said though was interesting to me and that’s that you’re on websites and you go from landing pages to landing page landing page. So you shouldn’t be able to do that. Like Atlanta marketing in their main navigation.

Jason Tucker (00:21:58):
Yeah. I like I go into pages or they have a landing page plugin that’s running that kind of separates them out and you look and you’re just like, wow, there’s a hundred landing pages in here. You know, for someone who’s not a marketer by trade, but rather by needing to I, I, you know, I, when you get to kind of like look behind the curtain and see what’s going on there, you start seeing that there’s just like, like no joke. Like there people are running hundreds of these landing pages for all different, all different things. And it could be for people like blue houses versus people like red houses that some people like this neighborhood versus that neighborhood. Or like you said, if they’re a mechanic or if they’re a doctor or if they’re a lawyer. And so you can kind of build all those out. Is there any, is there any tools out there that that can help someone with those landing pages? So they’re not having to build an entirely new landing page but rather have a little bit of dynamics to it?

Jen Miller (00:22:59):
Well, what I typically suggest people do is find one that they like. So if you’ve seen a landing page and you can sort of grab some ideas from it, sort of model it, create your own, you know, you don’t want to ever copy something directly. But there are concepts and ideas that are universal to landing pages. You know, a great headline that engages and brings in readers. Definitely want to have that. You definitely want some images on there. Maybe a video. What I’ve seen and I think the studies show this too, if I just can’t spell one off for you right now, but is that if you put a video on the page, not an autoplay one, that they have to actually click. It keeps people on the page longer because they’re watching the right. So your page view, your time on site is going to be better because of that, even if it’s just a landing page that they’re going to.

Jen Miller (00:23:53):
So that’s something that is really good cause it’s explanatory. So when you’re talking about these different landing pages with different offerings, you know, you pop in the video for that particular offering. The other thing is that you want to tell a story, like that’s what people get into. So whether it’s through testimonials or through how the business or a product was created or how it changed somebody’s life, those are the kinds of things you want to have on that landing page to make it unique. And then what you do is build on that from there. And so after they’ve signed up, you know, maybe they get the product just from that one signup, you know, maybe that’s maybe it’s a buy now and they buy it and then whatever the product is, the product continues to help them sell your brand. Right. But if if it’s a, if you’re trying to use the landing page to get a subscriber on your website, then you’ve got to follow up with content that is in line with what you were talking about on the page or it doesn’t matter you can start to branch into other things. But that’s why you need to have a unique landing page,

Bridget Willard (00:25:12):
Which I feel like I cut you off when I know you didn’t. No, I just thought I need some videos on my landing pages. Absolutely. So you should get into doing video online, right? And then take copies of those, chop it up and then put it onto the website. Oh my gosh. I know the perfect person that we can make this happen with. It’s going to be awesome. But that thing is like, I do video. That’s why it’s so like I could have had a BA and that’s, I mean, I mean this is why you hire professionals because even our own companies were too close. You know, we’re too close, we forget things. And that’s why it’s important to talk to other people, you know, and to think, you know, maybe you build it this way because it did it, it, it, duh, but now is it serving your purposes now, you know, is your audience, is that really who your audience is or who you want your audience to be? And so one of the things that I find helpful, Jen, is when you’re saying that the copy should be specific to that audience, so we’re assuming for the sake of this conversation, people know what that is. But it sounds to me like the optimal pairing, the peanut

Jen Miller (00:26:44):
Butter and jelly of this is landing page was an email campaign or it either starts with one and ends with the other or starts with Dawn and ends with the other, or it could be it. Email campaign is what’s I think, most regularly used. So that’s why that’s what I typically say. But it could be the phone call could be send an appointment is your call to action and you, the, you were offering a 15 minute phone call and that leads to consulting. It could be buying our product and you know, you can have a long form content explanation. You know, the copywriting just continues to explain why they need this product so bad. And then by now and then it’s done. It’s a sale. But when they go to checkout, oftentimes you’ll find on these types of landing pages, there’s a second offer that comes in or there’s a join our mailing list or there’s a, you know, and, and that gets that continued relationship because all of our marketing is relationship marketing, right? It doesn’t matter if it’s a cold lead off the internet. We want to bring that person into our tribe or sphere, our, you know, whatever you want to call it. But they become part of our base once they’ve interacted with us and made the choice to follow us in one way or another, whether it’s through purchase or through a signup or through, you know, pushing a button that gets them on our email campaign.

Jason Tucker (00:28:19):
I never thought about using a landing page after either after a phone call or after a you know, some type of interaction with the customer. That’s more of a a personal on a personal level side of things. I, I think that’s a, a dance, a clever idea and I think that that’s probably why people own a lot of domain names so you’re not having to put in slash blah blah blah slash blah blah blah slash blah blah blah. You can actually just go straight to this one, you know, domain that just takes you there and you don’t have to know what the code is or know what special, you know, web address it is or something like that. It just kind of gets you there. I also like the idea that you were saying of when you finish that conversation that that link is going to be here’s where you should go to that kind of gets us back to like the email, the, the, the email side of things. Cause you’re not going to be like, Hey Jen, it was really great talking to you and make sure you go over to think to, you know, to, to thank me for that phone call I just did.

Jen Miller (00:29:22):

Jason Tucker (00:29:24):
So how are you seeing people use that when they’re, when they’re doing, when they’re doing a either a phone call type of conversation, or if they’re just in person, like how are you getting them to one of those pages that hopefully will, can you get them to the next step?

Jen Miller (00:29:40):
Well, so as you’re talking with them, you lead them to it. So you might on the phone call actually say, Oh, you know what, there’s a bunch of resources on Aston you know, and then that way they’re, they, you wait until they get to it. Once they say they’re on that page, then you’re like, I just wanted to share this with you. Go ahead and click on any of those things. You can learn more about that specific service. That type of a thing is how you could handle that. A lot of the thing that I’ve been seeing, and it’s a little different than what you were talking about Jason, but is, and it totally intrigues me. Okay. So people will record the video call, right? And then they’ll email it to the client as a reminder of what they discussed and they might even timestamp it at at six Oh six, you know, colon Oh eight we discussed such and such.

Jen Miller (00:30:40):
And don’t forget your email campaign. We discussed that at 1213, you know, and, and have like little prompts so that people will fast forward through the video. Super resourceful. And it’s, it’s something that helps the client find exactly what it was. If they can’t remember what you guys have talked about on the conversation, but it’s also good for you as the consultant. Like this is in a consultant space, right? But if for you to be able to refer to what did we talk about and to kind of build your client database of notes and I’m guessing there’s also another level where you could share that video with someone else and say, look, I talked to this person, you know, and about this topic. And then that builds your credibility because the second person you’re sending it to sees that you’re talking to someone else about the same topic. Not just that. It’s kind of like where someone refers you for, you know, when someone says something good about you to someone else that’s way more powerful than them just telling you that you did something good. Right. You

Bridget Willard (00:31:51):
Being the client says that, Oh cause I, I’m going to be like, I have like a lawyer confidentiality. I don’t send those rooms. I wouldn’t send that recording. Just some other potential client. Okay. Like just for clarity sake, the end user, the person who paid for the consulting senators is somebody else you consulted? No, it was me. It was all me. Anyone else thought that’s what I was saying? Yeah. No, that was on my face. Like what? No way.

Jason Tucker (00:32:27):
Can I tell you too about a landing page that I like, so I want to tell you a little bit about go over to their website over at they support and promote Positive wellbeing and mental health within the WordPress community and the wider remote working communities. Go check them out over at Bridget, you’re part of WPandUP. Can you tell us a little, little something real fast?

Bridget Willard (00:32:52):
Yeah. is one of my favorite charities and clients. I do their Twitter account and LinkedIn and Facebook, so say hi to everybody. But one of the things that’s really great about it is, and we probably don’t talk about it as much as we should because of the confidentiality, but we have people available 24, seven. If you are feeling stressed out and I don’t mean stressed out, I mean anywhere from stressed out to panic attack. I mean if you’re having suicidal ideations called national hotline, which I have don’t have memorized at the moment, but you can go to WP and and they, there is somebody there to talk to you either on video and Slack or what have you. This is really a hard time right now because so many people that have children in school are also doing their work, which some of them didn’t do at home with kids at home who need help with their zoom calls and their Google classroom.

Bridget Willard (00:34:02):
And everybody is losing kind of that original like, okay, we can do this together. I’m seeing it a lot in my view of my peers. It’s like becoming really tough. So if you just wanted to talk to somebody sometimes it helps, you know, just talk it out. Say you know what, it’s going to be fine. Business matters, mental health matters or just how are you, we have a channel in our Slack. It’s just how are you? And sometimes it’s nice to just say, you know what, I’m doing okay today. But yesterday I cried a lot.

Jason Tucker (00:34:45):
Awesome. Well thank you for that Bridget. I appreciate that. I can, I can definitely do the ad read, but man, you, you’re the one that brings the emotion into it. So I appreciate that.

Bridget Willard (00:34:54):
My heart close to my heart. Yeah, I mean, so building a client database with better notes. I mean I’m thinking logistics that might be a good thing for an intern or something. Or PR AI assistant or But so wow. I just feel like my mind is blown every time my mind is blown. Okay. So like essentially we have landing pages on Instagram. That’s when I started using, of, you know, people use linktree. I was all like dont, use linktree, you, there’s no, no, it’s but it’s [inaudible].

Bridget Willard (00:35:47):
But when you’re on Instagram, that experience, if you’re changing a lot, that whole Lincoln bio, Lincoln bio, Lincoln bio, Lincoln by, it’s annoying. But I’ll tell you what changed my mind, Jen, is I was going through apartment therapy, which is one of my favorite decorating of blogs and their Instagram accounts. Great. So you see a room you like and it says Lincoln file. And I’m like, Oh yeah, how are you going to show that? I saw that you had one yesterday. And, and Instagram isn’t in the show where it’s chronological anymore. You know, you might see something from two days ago. So when it was chronological, it’s like in bio, but you’re seeing something from two days ago. You’re like, Oh yeah, that’s already gone. So I went to apartment therapy. I don’t know what services they’re using, but maybe they built something like you did Jason.

Bridget Willard (00:36:41):
It showed the picture and you clicked on the picture and then it took you to that blog post. So the experience as I’m scrolling, you know, on Instagram was seamless. So I went from that and then it allowed me to open it in my browser or whatever. But like there are moments where these landing pages are being open on mobile. Do you have any specific advice for that Jen? Like the mobile experience for me the other day, like I opened something and the whole bottom 25% was that GDPR? Yes. Take my cookies, just kit off my screen.

Jen Miller (00:37:26):
Well actually I just went to the site. As Jason was talking about it and you started talking about it and they have that cookie privacy policy thing right there. Pick up half the screen and it’s black with white text. And I was like, Ooh, okay. Personally that just like it takes over the whole site because it’s so, you know, it demands your attention almost. And so that, that might be change, I would make it. But what you need to do is look at your site as a mobile user on multiple devices. Okay. First of all, if you’re the person who’s designing it, then of course you need to do that. But as the client, I find so many people come to me later who need a brand new website because they never even bothered to check what it looked like responsibly and their site doesn’t work because now I think the society’s changed a little bit and we’re always thinking mobile friendly.

Jen Miller (00:38:28):
You know, we, we check things on our websites before we check them on our desktop most of the time. And so that has changed the way that people look at web design. But when you are designing for mobile, you have to be completely clear and you may, you know, you want to make sure that everything’s centered. Have you ever been on a mobile site where like everything goes back and forth and you can’t you know, it’s just not flush with the margins of the phone or the device that you’re tracking. And that’s so frustrating and, or there’s a functionality on it that doesn’t work. And so as the end user the person who has bought this product and has wanted somebody to design your a webpage or if you’re doing it yourself, you need to make sure it works.

Jen Miller (00:39:20):
That is I think first and foremost. And I, I personally like it when there’s some text at the top and then there’s the button where the buttons not just glaring right off the top where it’s like here by me, by me. Now you know, where they introduce you a little. But a video could work for that same kind of intro and then just a tiny bit of text. You just want to make sure that you’ve got a headline that really grabs attention because that’s how people are going to start scrolling down the page. And so if you’ve made assurances that everything looks good and your headline is something that’s interesting and, or that’s helping someone or that’s an answer to a how to question, something like that or provoking, you know, then you’re going to get people who are going to at least travel down the page and see if it has merit beyond that.

Jason Tucker (00:40:18):
Yeah. My, my biggest pet peeve is when someone doesn’t test those landing or any, any type of page that’s on a mobile and they find that or you find that they put up something that’s like a, a map or something that allows you to scroll in multiple places and you can’t get past it because it’s stuck there and it’s like the call to action literally is like five pixels down below it and you can’t move your finger across it because, so like there’s things like that where like that’s a, it’s a user experience issue that you definitely need to go through and test. And there’s other ways of doing that. Like put a link that to opens up a Google map or something like that. Like there’s better ways to do this and so

Bridget Willard (00:40:57):
Yeah. Address, cause most of our falls will say, do you want to open this and Apple maps?

Jason Tucker (00:41:02):
Huh. Stop thinking for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They tried to put the kitchen sink on one of those pages and you’re just like what are you doing? Like stop, stop, stop.

Bridget Willard (00:41:14):
Or it’s four point font and I wish I was exaggerating if I can’t read it with my reading glasses on, on my phone that’s three inches wide.

Jason Tucker (00:41:24):

Bridget Willard (00:41:25):
Pick a finger. I got 10% chance of getting it right. I’m just saying like I bounce, I bounce, which makes ma, I know I have like four minutes left of the main part, but I want to talk about landing pages affecting your balance rate. Jen, because fill any page is supposed to be the beginning and the end of the journey. And there’s some like some kind of like call to action that they do. They click, they fill out a form, whatever. So when you look at the context of your analytics and you see a bounce rate, they scrolling. What’d you guys do?

Jen Miller (00:42:06):
You think more about your conversion rate, your overall conversion rate. Okay. And if that ad, if the reason why they’re bouncing is because they signed up for the product, that’s a win. Right? Okay. And that’s also why you need to continue to follow up with them so that they come back to your site so that they enhance your bounce rate because they’re reading your blog posts, they’re watching your videos. And that’s another reason why you might want to put a video on your landing pages is because as people engage with that, that will improve that bounce rate. The other thing is that that’s why a lot of landing pages are long form content. And when I say long form, I’m not talking a thousand words, I’m talking 2,400 to 4,800. You know, it’s like a little mini book that just continues and continues and continues.

Jen Miller (00:42:51):
Of course, that’s not something you’re going to want to market necessarily on mobile. But there, if you’re selling some kind of intellectual property that can work really well because you can spell out different scenarios, you can bullet point things to make the content look attractive. You can share testimonials, you can have three or four different, you know, they’re all leading to the same thing but different buttons on the page so that if you’re still reading this, then you know, and, and you see it all the time. Right. so the, those are the things that I think people need to think about with those landing pages. And if you’re specifically trying to hit a mobile audience, if you’re doing an ad on Facebook, you may not want to use that long form page, but if you’re doing it through an email campaign where somebody is trying to learn something from you, that might be a more appropriate use for that. And Putting a video on a landing page just works. And so it’s something that I recommend doing regardless of,

Jason Tucker (00:44:05):
That’s super simple to do too. And what would your, what would your ideal length of video, the on a landing page? Like what, what, what’s the somebody would be shooting for, what should Bridget be shooting for Jen?

Jen Miller (00:44:20):
If it’s a mobile, if you’re looking for mobile users, I would definitely keep it under a minute. That’s just my personal preference. I cannot handle videos longer than that. I also, if it’s a longer video, I want to see the transcription on that same page. So even if it’s a landing form or a landing page, I want to see it broken down, at least the bullet points of what’s in that video because I don’t want to spend my time watching the video. And it better be an interesting video if you’re to put it on there. You don’t want to just do something that’s not really worth someone’s time to watch. But that’s the reason why I had mentioned those little links or you know, the timestamps telling people where they can find specific information. Cause I think that that is something that can be really valuable to people who are like me anyway. Who would rather just know where do I get the points I’m after?

Bridget Willard (00:45:17):
Exactly. Yeah. Well now we’re at the tool or tip of the week segment of the WordPress marketing show. This week’s tool or tip is brought to you by Fat Dog Creatives. If you’re a service based business, serious about growth rather than I guard is your rebranding and web design thinker, a strategic design specialist. Check out her website at fat dog, Okay. You will be proud of me. I actually thought to myself last night, I want to find a cool app. Okay. So I decided to look at the app of the day. I saw somebody tweet out the app of the day. It was one of my friends Val best Vesper Bessa I mean and I was like, Oh, after the day. So I’m like, Oh, I’ll go look and find something cool and impress Jason Tucker.

Bridget Willard (00:46:20):
And I was like this thing to color on that. I was like, ah, pain and I hate this. I hate this when you download something and then now it costs, just tell me it costs runaway. Like I want to know that Sri or $10 right now, I don’t want to download it. And then I tried to use it and it’s like, Oh, sorry, it’s smart dollars. So I went and found, so I just scrolled. I didn’t know, I didn’t even realize that the landing page on the app store, you know, has all these things. So I just kept scrolling, scrolling and found one thing I might talk about later, I’m going to use it for awhile. And then I found this thing called Curio here. Great journalism. Oh my goodness. Okay. Because it’s not a screen reader, so it’s not [inaudible] and it’s not as lame is like some of my Kindle books.

Speaker 6 (00:47:16):
Wow. Wow.

Bridget Willard (00:47:18):
Well you’re turning into pepper, you know? So it had like, I was like, Oh, somebody reads these news articles to me. Someone auditory. Yes. And the narrations are great. And even so like financial times, the economist, the guardian, actual, you know, subscriptions. I would want to buy separately are all in this app. And so you could go to the right thing. I decided to do the seven 99 a month because I thought, Oh my gosh, this is so great. I, that last night I turned it on and fell asleep. It was great. I woke up to a really great discussion.

Bridget Willard (00:48:10):
Time on site and time on page was very long for Bridget. But that’s the thing. It’s like, that’s what I want. I want the talking to kind of calm me down because my anxiety is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And sometimes classical music works, but I’m still thinking, you know, but anyway, so this morning when I woke up and I mean woke up intentionally. It was, it was a panel discussion about the most important news of this week about coven and how things are gonna change. And it’s not talk radio where it’s like, no, no, no, I love the progressive ads. They’re so good on ESPN because they’re like, and now we’re going to talk about who’s the best fighter all the time. It has two guys talking over there and I’ve said, [inaudible], they’re all talking jeweler. And she goes, my thoughts exactly. Progressive insurance, you know like that.

Bridget Willard (00:49:03):
But so it’s not that like I’m agitating argument is people, it’s more like NPR this way where people are actually having a discussion and you’re getting like five, 10 minutes max. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, that was so interesting. And then if something comes up next, because it’ll auto play the next thing. And I’m like, I didn’t really care about millennials decorating their house. Then you thumb it down like Pandora. So no, I don’t ever want to hear this article. This one was good. And then I was drinking my coffee, listening to the next one, the city to the next one. And I’m like, this is the kind of news I want, not the blah, blah blah, because I’m like, Jen, I want the bullet points. What do I need to know? One, two, three, four, 10 otherwise I don’t want to listen to your speech, governor, politician, whoever.

Bridget Willard (00:49:51):
I literally tweeted the governor’s office. I’m like, can I just have a copy of the transcript? I want to read what he has to say. I can read it faster than listening to it, you know, but I loved this app because it’s really good material that I would read anyway, but because it’s my job to be on the computer or on my phone reading, I sometimes I’m just done. I don’t want to read one more thing. This I happily spent seven 99 for and I thought, well, if I get a good night’s sleep, that’s worth, I’ll cancel it now. Mike, I woke up, I was like, this is great. This is so good. I’m gonna listen to this at lunch instead of the Wilke game show. Well, maybe not. I liked the, well Cain show, but like in the afternoons I’ll just take my break and listen to some articles that I would normally read anyway. And the people that are doing the reading have great voices. The sound quality is good. It’s not mechanical, really rarely. Great app.

Jason Tucker (00:50:59):
That’s cool. Thanks for that Bridget. Jen, you got something?

Jen Miller (00:51:04):
I do. It’s not something necessarily new, but I found a new use for it. It’s Marco polo, which I know both of you are on, cause I already looked you up and saw you were both on there. But yeah, you are, you planted that flag and then you ditched it. Okay. So here’s the thing. We were talking about ways to engage our clients. Right? Okay. So my kids, I have several adult children who live all over the United States. And so one of the things we’ve been doing to kind of keep in touch with each other is using Marco polo. And what’s great about it is you can just say what you have to say and then people respond. You know, you can do a group individually, they respond and it’s sort of like zoom call, but it’s not because you can do it live, but you don’t have to, you can just send it and forget about it.

Jen Miller (00:52:00):
So it’s like sending a text video. Yeah, exactly. Video, voicemail. Perfect. But I was just thinking, so with our blogging business, one of the things that sometimes happens is we don’t necessarily have a lot of touch with our clients. Right. we sort of just take it over and they love what we’re doing. So we don’t, you know, maybe every three months we have an official consultation call or something. But I thought this might be a fun way to keep people sort of abreast of what’s going on on a weekly basis, you know, just a two minute or 32nd reach out using this technology, which doesn’t take a lot of preparation and it can be done by me or anyone on my team and there are ways to set up groups. And so I started to think that this could really be an interesting tool to use for client communication. Yeah. And the other thing is that with the earbuds, Jason, that you only need one. So my past exterminator showed me that I can charge one and keep one in my ear at all times and that’s been like a game changer for me. So I just want to make sure everyone’s aware. Cause Bridget wasn’t aware of about this morning.

Bridget Willard (00:53:19):
No, I haven’t the wire still, I’m like, I’m like a Luddite over here.

Jen Miller (00:53:27):
Sorry. We know what to get you for Christmas this year.

Jason Tucker (00:53:32):
Yeah. I like, I like Marco polo because it takes you away from having to to schedule out time to make one of those video calls. That drives me crazy cause I’m just like, Oh, I’m stuck. Like I’m, I’m literally stuck on this call with these people that I do want to have a conversation with, but I didn’t want to have it right this second. You know, it’s like it was impromptu video things and you’re like, ah, I really, I, I, I, I don’t want the impromptu newness. I will also, you know, you could just watch it and it takes like, you know, if it’s a ten second thing that person’s going to say and they’re trying to show you the reason why they’re doing this cause it’s video or whatever. I get it much better than having like a full on. It’s like, you know, this, this the zoom call could have been an email. It’s like that, it’s like this Marco polo thing could have been a, a, an email, but should it be an email? No. And needed to be video because the person was trying to have a more of a more of a like a personal conversation with you by using video. Right.

Jen Miller (00:54:33):
Well, it looks like a friendly, friendly version of Snapchat.

Jason Tucker (00:54:38):
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Miller (00:54:40):
I mean it’s like zoom on the fly, right. So because you can put multiple people on a call together. Okay. I just, I just thought there’s a lot of opportunity there that I had never thought about until this week.

Jason Tucker (00:54:57):
My coworker uses it and got me into at least signing up for it and playing around with it a little bit. And it was yeah, it was really, it was really cool. I enjoyed it a lot. Yeah. So I wanted to tell you about something that I was trying to find a good solution for, which is captioning. I know we’ve talked about captioning even on this episode we were talking about like having a transcript or having, you know, any of that sort of thing. And I’ve been using all sorts of different things to kind of pull this off. Rev.Com is one of them. And they have an AI version of the thing called team teen T E a M I think. So there’s like an AI version of it that will do it and it’s a little bit cheaper.

Jason Tucker (00:55:40):
But I wanted something that would do it on the phone. You know, I live off of my phone, like I don’t touch this computer unless I’m doing this type of work or I’m doing some type of web development. This is my computer. Like this is the way that I interact with people. And so I I downloaded this app called caption this and caption this, I’ll, I’ll show you real quick. What this thing does is it makes it so that you can you can caption the video that is being that’s being recorded off of the phone. So if I go in here real quick, all right. So I’ll pull this up. real fast. So here’s me and I can I can record a, Oh, it doesn’t like it when I’m streaming it. Oh darn. I didn’t test this part of it.

Jason Tucker (00:56:29):
But anyhow, what it does is it lets you you can record yourself on a video here and you can see it down the bottom here. You can pick from these different selections as to like how you want that caption to show up on the bottom of the screen. And what’s neat about it is it automatically does it so you don’t have to, you don’t have to do anything extra. It just kind of just, it just does it. And so yeah, I was playing around with it for for a little while to kind of see is this something that I could use for you know, for the show or use for you know, any of the types of video stuff that I’m putting out there can Bridget it, use it because she’s been having to jump through some hoops using something like headliner or any of those sorts of things.

Jason Tucker (00:57:14):
And so I wanted to kind of show you this real fast. So go on. If you go over to the, you know, on the app store I believe this is only iPhone and iPad if I remember correctly. But what you can do is they’ll add the closed captioning for you. You re you know, record the video or import it from from a video. So what I did is I took one of the videos from our episode and put it in this and then told it to a caption it and it would caption just a section of the video that I uploaded. And then after that, you can pick the style of the caption, what the colors of it is, and then you can see right here where it kind of shows you the the way that the caption is gonna look.

Jason Tucker (00:57:53):
So you can kind of customize all those things. And then after that, that’s it. You know, you, you’re able to take that video and upload to wherever you want to go so you can pick your own brand colors. Yeah, yeah. You can pick your own brand colors for the lower third and, and all that sort of thing. And this is really good for if you’re doing something like like Instagram like an Instagram story and you wanted to have, if you’re talking a whole lot and people aren’t going to take the time to sit there and listen to it, but you can see the text and especially if you start off with kind of a sentence that’s going to ask them to, you know, it’s like, Hey, entice them to actually listen. That might be something to, to kind of look at if this is, you know, what you’re trying to do is, you know, get them to actually watch the video and listen to the video.

Jason Tucker (00:58:46):
But it supports all different all different languages and different colors and different font styles and all that fun stuff. So go take a look at it. I’ve been emailing with the the, the guy who who wrote it and cause there were some issues that I was having with, with video and importing video that I recorded elsewhere and he’s kind of working through those things right now. But yeah, really nice, really nice stuff. I really enjoyed it. A lot of the people that are leaving reviews about it are trying to do what I was doing, which is take a video I recorded someplace else and try to upload it. But if you record the video on your phone and then try to caption it or use their builtin thing to do it, it’ll, it’ll work really well.

Jason Tucker (00:59:28):
So try to try to stay within the lanes of the the software’s limitations. But yeah, see I wasn’t using for what it was intended for, so it really broke it. So, but yeah, they right now they have, they have pretty low reviews. It’s like 1.7 at a five and that’s just because people are trying to do all this extra stuff with it. And it’s like, dude, like fix that and then everything will be just fine. But yeah, go take a look at it. It’s two 99 and they’re in the app store to download it and use it. But I’ve actually been using it and I’ve been putting, you know, content out using it and I really like it. So that’s it. Folks. It’s that time. Jen Miller, I really appreciate you coming on the show and hanging out with us. It’s, it’s been a, it’s been a pleasure and honor as always.

Jason Tucker (01:00:14):
And we want you to come back, so feel free to definitely come back. Tell us. Say I want that one. Don’t give that to so and so. I want to be able to be on the pill and talk about it. So feel free to do that. Bridget, as always been a pleasure. I want to let you know about our network and the things that we do over there. You can go over to where you can learn how to subscribe to this and all the other content that we put out there. Check us out as a podcast. You can go over to Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, YouTube where all the good podcasts are found. That’s where we’re found, cause we’re a good podcast. So thank you very much. Talk to y’all later. You have a good one. Bye.

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EP155 – Landing Page Best Practices with Jen Miller – The WordPress Marketing Show

@JenBlogs4U @Jason Tucker @YouTooCanBeGuru

#marketing #landingpage…

EP155 – Landing Page Best Practices with Jen Miller – The WordPress Marketing Show

@JenBlogs4U @Jason Tucker @YouTooCanBeGuru

#marketing #landingpage…

Jen Miller

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Joseph Dickson

listening to @YouTooCanBeGuru, @JenBlogs4U and @Jason Tucker talk about landing pages, #Marketing and advertising during this crazy pandemic. Highly recommend!…

Jen Miller

Thanks for listening, Joe!! Hope you found it useful!!

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Joseph Dickson

Super useful.

I’m really glad you liked it!

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Robin Heed

“Putting video on a landing page just works.” @JenBlogs4U


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