EP31 – Playing the Fields API

[00:00:00] Se Reed: Oh, it’s gonna be a good one, folks. Oh yeah. Oh

[00:00:09] Jason Tucker: This is Dev Branch, episode number 31. Playing with or playing the Field’s a p I.

[00:00:17] Se Reed: Play that field. Uhhuh,

[00:00:19] Jason Tucker: I’m Jason, Tucker. Go to my website at Jason Tucker dot blog.

[00:00:22] Se Reed: if you want. Websites are a thing, I guess.

[00:00:24] Jason Tucker: They are.

[00:00:25] Se Reed: I’m say Reed. I make WordPress. Teach WordPress, preach WordPress, LOA. Love, live it, laugh, learn it. WordPress, add all the things bougie.

[00:00:33] Jason Cosper: And y’all know who it is, your boy. Jason Cosper, a k a Post Malone, back at it again on the world’s most influential WordPress podcast.

[00:00:41] Se Reed: It’s not a lie.

[00:00:42] Jason Tucker: this podcast, subscribe. We’re all over the place and

[00:00:46] Se Reed: I’m all over the place today for sure.

[00:00:49] Jason Tucker: Links are in the description.

[00:00:53] Jason Cosper: And we’ve got a pal.

[00:00:55] Se Reed: we have a, and and it’s a, it’s a, what is this like a phenomenon when

[00:00:59] Jason Tucker: Has it, has it been three months? I guess it has been three months. It’s every three

[00:01:03] Scott Kingsley Clark: it was January when we were last together. Possibly. I don’t know.

[00:01:06] Se Reed: know, January is three months ago, as I just pointed out. On, on Mastodon. Do you know where your year went? Because,

[00:01:15] Jason Cosper: No.

[00:01:16] Se Reed: don’t Hey, sorry. We’ll get to your introduction, but I do wanna say because a fan of the show, Jacob, shout out. There he is. What up? Shout out to Jacob. ’cause he just replied on my mastodon, but

[00:01:26] Jason Tucker: Woo.

[00:01:27] Se Reed: had kind words to say word camp, whatever that was.

[00:01:30] Se Reed: So, thanks Jacob. Anyway, Scott Kingsley.

[00:01:35] Jason Tucker: Woo.

[00:01:38] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. Hi. I

[00:01:38] Se Reed: Who are you and what are you doing here?

[00:01:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: I was, I was actually hoping you would tell me who I was and what I was doing here. I just wandered in.

[00:01:46] Jason Tucker: he appeared. Yeah, so weird.

[00:01:49] Jason Cosper: Yeah.

[00:01:51] Scott Kingsley Clark: But yeah. So I’m Scott Kingsley Clark. I am a senior dev at page Lee slash GoDaddy, and I’m also the lead developer of the PODS Framework, and

[00:02:01] Se Reed: you, I did not actually know you worked at GoDaddy. Which is funny. I guess that goes to show you that. I just really think pods is cool ’cause that’s all I think about. I don’t even think about like day jobs.

[00:02:16] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy how like a project like pods, I’m, I’m so well known for, but like I I, it’s not my day job, so it’s just, it’s interesting.

[00:02:27] Se Reed: Yeah, I mean I have a little joke down here in my name tag that I don’t know if anyone could see. It’s p h p. What does it stand for? Pretty hard to fund. Ha ha. That’s a joke we’ll be talking about soon, but I think that’s

[00:02:39] Scott Kingsley Clark: Elephant.

[00:02:40] Se Reed: Yeah. Fun. I think that’s a, a thing that plagues very many components of our wonderful yeah, our wonderful project here.

[00:02:50] Se Reed: Yeah. Turns out Paige Lee was bought by GoDaddy, made some people very wealthy.

[00:02:55] Jason Cosper: I, you know, I, I keep forgetting that Paige Lee is a GoDaddy company

[00:03:00] Se Reed: do not forget that ever. Not once. Nope.

[00:03:02] Jason Cosper: I, it’s, it’s still kind of weird to me because Paige Lee felt, Paige Lee felt so singular. Paige Lee felt like struggle or better for

[00:03:12] Jason Tucker: not sponsored.

[00:03:14] Se Reed: Hashtag.

[00:03:15] Jason Cosper: Yeah.

[00:03:16] Se Reed: I mean, I that,

[00:03:17] Jason Tucker: I mean, you know, but hey, hashtag not sponsored.

[00:03:20] Se Reed: I think Page Lee had that vibe, reputation, or whatever because of Pressonomics, which

[00:03:27] Jason Cosper: sure.

[00:03:28] Se Reed: interesting. In terms of. Something gets acquired and, you know, I don’t, I, I, I assume, I don’t know what happened to the PressNomics, like

[00:03:38] Jason Cosper: It’s,

[00:03:39] Se Reed: property per se, but did it get eaten by Go GoDaddy?

[00:03:43] Se Reed: Do you

[00:03:43] Scott Kingsley Clark: I don’t think so. No, that was separate.

[00:03:46] Jason Cosper: I, I, I think it’s all tied up for me, mainly because Paige Lee was so like loudly and proudly like just independent and like free of the whole like venture capital thing and everything

[00:03:59] Se Reed: They were until they weren’t just like everybody else.

[00:04:03] Jason Tucker: So let’s have Scott talk now and talk

[00:04:05] Se Reed: Well, I was gonna say how

[00:04:06] Jason Tucker: I.

[00:04:06] Se Reed: I was gonna segue, I was gonna segue to Scott and I would be like, how much would it take for someone to acquire pods?

[00:04:14] Scott Kingsley Clark: You know, 2 million. 2 million. I mean, it’s a free plugin, so it’s, it’s very valuable. Worth at least 2 million.

[00:04:22] Se Reed: Alright. You heard it here folks. You heard it here first. Make your offers in the, in the comments. So tell us what, here, here’s, here’s, here’s what, if we fix the fields a p i, how much would it be worth then?

[00:04:37] Scott Kingsley Clark: Still quite a lot. Maybe at least 1.5.

[00:04:40] Se Reed: Oh, it’d be less. I was thinking it’d be worth more, not less.

[00:04:43] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well, like the, the pods because we, we, we would reduce a lot of the code and a lot of the logic and that a lot of people are using pods and a c f and things like that because there’s not really a super great way to do that in core.

[00:04:56] Se Reed: Right. So with, so with your advocacy for the field’s a p i, does that mean that you are slowly putting yourself out of business?

[00:05:05] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well, if I do it right, I, I probably not I don’t, I don’t think I’m, I’m sweating over the people who would rather do things the core way with P H P and if we get this field a p i, you know, full ffl and, and out there, I don’t think I’m worried about that. I think that’s great because we cover all the people that would’ve used the plugin that didn’t really need the plugin to begin with.

[00:05:26] Jason Tucker: That’s

[00:05:26] Jason Cosper: So, Scott Word WordCamp just happened and you were having some in, in interesting conversations there around the field’s. A p i I saw that at contributor day. You know, you had a group of folks like working with you on that stuff. Like, but there also has been some kind of recent conversations.

[00:05:50] Jason Cosper: Around the whole like, why are you doing the fields? A p I and p h P we’re, we were supposed to learn JavaScript Deeply, and the site editor is JavaScript. Like what’s up with that? Like,

[00:06:04] Se Reed: The joke, the deeply joke is never dying. It’s just never dying. It’s gonna.

[00:06:09] Jason Cosper: you’re surprisingly getting some pushback on that.

[00:06:13] Scott Kingsley Clark: yeah, so like I I, I was there all week for the community summit contributor day and we’re camp us. So like there

[00:06:19] Se Reed: It was on topic.

[00:06:21] Scott Kingsley Clark: And I had conversations with like, I must have been 30 people. Some people I’ve, I’ve known online, some people I didn’t know yet. Then I got connected ’cause there was lots of Devra people there hanging around, like just crazy connections just happening in real life.

[00:06:37] Scott Kingsley Clark: And so I talked to a bunch of folks and I, at first was like, Hey, like everyone I’m talking to, like first of all does not deny we need to field a p i. Good. And second of all, it was like, yeah, this sounds cool. But then I started, like, as the, the week went on, I started finding more people coming from it, from a different angle, from a different point of view that I, I hadn’t anticipated I should have, but I didn’t.

[00:06:59] Scott Kingsley Clark: And, and

[00:07:00] Se Reed: How dare you not think of everything, Scott, like, what is wrong with you? I think you should chastise yourself for that.

[00:07:07] Scott Kingsley Clark: this person, what, what am I doing with this person here? But yeah, so, so they started coming back with things like, well, well, one, one person would say it’s too late. It’s just too late. It, we’re already way past it. Now it, it, adding, it would just, I.

[00:07:25] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. And then others would come back with saying that well, we’re actually doing things instead of Gutenberg right now that are kind of, we don’t need it now because we have some stuff in, in Gutenberg that are working on, or it’s coming or whatever. And so I, I, I read into that. I did my homework and was like, Hey, the things you’re mentioning here aren’t actually what this is supposed to cover.

[00:07:47] Scott Kingsley Clark: And then I, I started to see other people come back with like, We don’t really want to be exploring this in P H P, we want to explore it in the react components and do these things. ’cause the admin UI revamp is, is gonna be a thing coming here the next year or two,

[00:08:02] Se Reed: I, that’s not gonna have any problems. It’s gonna go so smooth and like no one’s gonna have any problems and everyone across the world is gonna convert easily.

[00:08:10] Scott Kingsley Clark: I like, I like the idea.

[00:08:12] Jason Tucker: in that.

[00:08:13] Se Reed: I don’t, I like the idea of slow changes so that people don’t freak out. I don’t, I, you know, like there’s the idea that you could rip off the bandaid and be like, here, everything’s different, but people literally leave. They like, make really strong choices based off of that, and I, I think it’s gonna be like Gutenberg 5.0, but like to the scale.

[00:08:36] Se Reed: But we’ll see. We’ll see.

[00:08:37] Scott Kingsley Clark: to respond to jd. It’s, it’s going to be built off of React. I don’t see a world where we can get around the fact that we’re not gonna use the Gutenberg components, reuse those UI elements and yeah, it won’t look like the block editor. You’re not editing blocks, but you’re gonna be working with those components and those things that are built from React.

[00:08:54] Scott Kingsley Clark: And then we’re gonna see something most likely, like the meta boxes were for legacy stuff. So. People that had plugins that were adding things, if we detected that they were hooking in there, we would then output those things and have legacy hooks that were run at the bottom or some section of it. So it’s gonna be kind of like a in-between state again, and it’s gonna be react,

[00:09:14] Se Reed: i, I spoke with someone at the, I don’t remember if it was at the summit or whatever, but I won’t cite them because, You know, non attribution regardless. But it was about that basically they were saying it’s, it’s kind of like an open secret, but we’re essentially rebuilding all of WordPress and JavaScript.

[00:09:33] Se Reed: That’s what Gutenberg is. It’s just rebuilding the entire code base in JavaScript and react,

[00:09:39] Scott Kingsley Clark: I see that as one of the things that brought up this whole thing, like, I like Jason. Tucker head was like, Hey, you should come on the show. ’cause you just talked about something on MAs on. And so I was talking about this idea that I was getting this pushback, but not necessarily like, Oh, don’t do it.

[00:09:57] Scott Kingsley Clark: In p h P it was like everything is gonna be shifting. Like even the q and a from Matt’s session, at the very end of Word camp us someone, they didn’t actually get to the question, but someone asked, literally asked the question with like 20 likes or whatever on it. When are we gonna replace P H P? Inside of WordPress core.

[00:10:14] Scott Kingsley Clark: So I’m just thinking in my head like, okay, am I going up against let’s just a monolith of a mountain of I of unfathomable size that I cannot overcome to get something like this? Some P h p love for WordPress core?

[00:10:26] Se Reed: so okay. Can you just real quick, just like kind of summarize why, like what the issue is specifically the field’s a p i issue that you’ve been championing? Just like if you could like summarize it real quick.

[00:10:43] Scott Kingsley Clark: sure. So like the summary is, I wanna add a feel to any screen inside of WordPress I have to learn. Well, we just did the research at contributor day sat at a table and what was it? Seven people showed up and I didn’t, I. Asked them to, they just showed up like, Hey, I wanna learn more about this.

[00:10:57] Scott Kingsley Clark: How can I help? And we did all the research. So it’s like eight, 10, some lar, just crazy amount of APIs or non APIs, just totally just using hooks and manual markup to add fields to all these different screens inside a WordPress. So the idea of this fields, the API is like, let’s take these screens and power them by a unified a p I, so that we have one awaited register our fields, the actual like.

[00:11:23] Scott Kingsley Clark: Here’s the data and what they’re attached to. Is it a setting or is it a post type? Is it attached to a term or a user or whatever? And then two, be able to describe that, that input type. So is it gonna be a text field or text area or whatever, and let the avenue I leverage this information to build Its.

[00:11:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: UI and those different screens. So yeah, the screens could remain the same as they are right now before the admin UI revamp, but they could then be powered by this fields a p i that LE leads us down that path towards whenever it’s time for admin UI revamp. We’re not like disconnecting all of the people.

[00:11:55] Scott Kingsley Clark: Again, we have all the P HB devs we can bring along for the ride and all of the benefits of having all this structure information right there in P H P where it needs to be. There’s no way to get this information right now instead of WordPress. It’s not abstracted enough. It’s just not there. So like having all that power.

[00:12:15] Scott Kingsley Clark: Enables so much more way down the line, even beyond admin ui, like re rest a p i stuff, and WordPress apps on iOS and Android and, and other custom admin ui. Like someone could build whatever they want with the power of this structure without even having to build all the inputs themselves. They just say, Hey, get me the fields for this screen and I’m making a screen for it, and this is what it should look like.

[00:12:38] Jason Cosper: So the, the

[00:12:41] Scott Kingsley Clark: Okay.

[00:12:42] Jason Cosper: A.

[00:12:42] Se Reed: What silly utopia are you talking about? Scott Kingsley Clark, are you a communist?

[00:12:49] Jason Cosper: The, the field’s a p i. Sounds like it at, at least, at least in the imagined way that you’ve this imagined future that you’ve kind of like put forward is that things would change to the, or like would, would basically be flexible enough where. You could potentially be helping the transition.

[00:13:10] Jason Cosper: If we do move to JavaScript, if we do move to, yeah. This, this is the thing that helps move us along.

[00:13:19] Se Reed: my gosh. I just realized something. You guys literally, you’re all guys, this is the problem. It’s not a gradient. It like duo tone is not a gradient, right? So like we need, just like duo tone is just two tones. So it’s either on or off, right? But we need the gradient transition. That’s where we’re struggling in WordPress is on the gradient.

[00:13:40] Se Reed: Right, like 5.0 all the things. We, we never build the transition. I mean, we may, you’re literally advocating for something that would be a transition. It’s like a gradient between, you know, p h P and what, you know, react or whatever nightmare is over here and then, but, but some people in the project really like duo tone and may only wanna go from one to the other.

[00:14:04] Se Reed: This is why, the reason I bring this up is ’cause Duo tone broke in six three, so I thought it was funny.

[00:14:09] Jason Cosper: When, when you have or when you came up with the idea of the fail fields, a p i Scott, like, like we weren’t even really talking about learning JavaScript deeply or making a transition or any of this other stuff you just wanted. Better interoperability you wanted, right? I, I put words. Yeah. So,

[00:14:34] Scott Kingsley Clark: still applies.

[00:14:36] Se Reed: So why does everyone, why is it incompatible so to speak, or why is it, you know, like what would be the alternative that other folks are advocating for that you talk to them about?

[00:14:48] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well, one of the main advocations I’ve seen is like we should put all this logic and all this registration and everything inside of React and JavaScript. And to me, I feel like that just misses the mark entirely because one, we’ve gotta handle saving in a smart way. So it’s gotta be on the P h P side and dealing with the database.

[00:15:06] Scott Kingsley Clark: Two, we need to be able to handle other things as part of the saving like validation service side and having availability to do this beyond just the React interfaces. There’s just so much that really requires a P H P component to it, whether or not that means we have a. P h p Fields a p i and we have a compatible JavaScript fields, a p i.

[00:15:23] Scott Kingsley Clark: So you can do things ad hoc in the JavaScript, JavaScript side. You could do that still. But there’s just a lot of pushback on the idea that why wouldn’t we just use a react? Why wouldn’t we just use the, the existing components? Because I heard someone had. Masked on or tweeted or whatever. Just a couple years ago, we kind of already had a filled a p i, it’s in the block editor right now.

[00:15:44] Scott Kingsley Clark: And I was looking at it. I was like, no, we don’t like, literally what, tell you, tell me what the difference is besides the JavaScript. You have a page that’s hard coded with H H T M L and you have a JavaScript, J Ss x whatever, with your components saying, I want this component, I want this component. And that, all that stuff, like it’s, it is, it’s markup centric.

[00:16:05] Scott Kingsley Clark: It is not abstracted to the point where you have this now, be able to handle saving. You don’t have it. Being able to handle the database stuff, all that stuff is not abstracted well enough. You have to take it to the next level. And there’s not a, I just don’t see, there’s a possibility that this could all live in JavaScript unless we, in fact did go towards moving WordPress out a P H P into like node or react server or whatever.

[00:16:30] Scott Kingsley Clark: It ends up,

[00:16:31] Se Reed: I like, I feel like there’s a push towards, not like client side, everything. Like I heard some I don’t even remember where I saw it, but I remember that there was a post recently and one of the channels somewhere and Yost Yuval responded. No, it was about, it was like, no, we can’t do that. That old server side.

[00:16:53] Se Reed: Without the server side component, it’ll just decimate, s e o. And I thought that was really interesting ’cause I had never thought about the ss e o implications of server side or client side rendering

[00:17:05] Jason Tucker: Oh yeah.

[00:17:05] Se Reed: and I was like, oh yeah, that’s interesting. So I, I feel like with the playground and with every, it feels like everyone’s moving to like JavaScript, everything’s like on client side.

[00:17:16] Se Reed: Everything’s like up here on the surface. Like, what? What happens? Like, how do we get rid of all of that? I don’t, I don’t even understand.

[00:17:25] Jason Tucker: Like browsers would have to, like, browsers would have to have like key frames or something of, of its render to say like, Hey Google, look at this, at this state. And hey Google,

[00:17:34] Se Reed: Yeah. Like how do we save that stuff? Is that possible? Like I, ’cause you can’t save a

[00:17:39] Jason Tucker: needs to get better.

[00:17:41] Se Reed: Right. And that, that notes block that I don’t remember who it was, but was experimenting with this app that was like, built all in Gutenberg. Did you see that Scott? We, we talked about it on the show at one point, a couple months back, but it would like, it would bring in notes that would then save to your WordPress posts.

[00:17:57] Se Reed: But like every time you load it would load new stuff. Like Jason, you could, Tucker, you couldn’t get it to work because it was like, you know, just fresh every

[00:18:04] Jason Tucker: Yeah.

[00:18:05] Se Reed: That’s a problem if you have notes, right? Like you need. Where does the stuff stay at that point? If it’s all client side?

[00:18:13] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah,

[00:18:14] Se Reed: This is a question that’s not rhetorical.

[00:18:16] Se Reed: I’m actually asking

[00:18:20] Scott Kingsley Clark: so like if you don’t, if you take out the p h P side of it, You’re saying like if we just do it by client and oh, we have a rest a p i, I’ll send whatever custom field I want or whatever setting I want. Then you’re like, well now you open the door ’cause you have an open door that’s like historically bad for, for, for

[00:18:38] Se Reed: No one’s ever exploded any of those. What are you talking about In the history of the internet?

[00:18:43] Scott Kingsley Clark: That’s why you want to be able to have structured content architecture, like your post types and taxonomies and settings so that you know, this is the setting and this is the type of data we’re expecting back from it. This, and then also registering it in a way that that you can then get that data out from the JavaScript implementation or elsewhere, like the rest a p i being able to say, oh, the rest a p i, here’s what settings we have and here’s the data types or whatever.

[00:19:06] Scott Kingsley Clark: Like just having something like the fields, a p i in place would. Cover almost all those bases without saying, Hey, we’re gonna require you to use P H P to render the fields like that. If you think about the field a p I, right now, where we’re at, we’re at kind of a crossroads where the implementation UI side, we can do whatever we want.

[00:19:26] Scott Kingsley Clark: On the A P I side, we red, we register all the fields and configurations and all that stuff here. Let the block editor decide how they wanna use that for the ui. Let the settings and admin UI revamp stuff, handle

[00:19:38] Se Reed: not grasp how else it would work. This is what I’m struggling with. I’m like, doesn’t that, that makes so much sense what you’re saying. What I don’t under what I don’t understand is like what the other side is saying. Like what is the alternative to what you’re advocating for?

[00:19:55] Scott Kingsley Clark: They’re, they’re saying that we would build all this stuff inside of the React components inside of these big JavaScript files where we have the mark markup all put in there through the component embeds and having. All of this complicate things worse because we’re currently, we’re at a point where it’s very difficult to work within the admin UI for the block editor to extend it to do other things because there’s not the same, there’s not the same action filter kind of paradigm there.

[00:20:27] Scott Kingsley Clark: There are some, but it’s not the

[00:20:29] Se Reed: customize it, like just to customize the UI is like really difficult,

[00:20:32] Scott Kingsley Clark: You’ve gotta go override the DOM stuff and then deal with renders, and there’s just so much complica complication there that it’s not even solidified into one point where I found a great. Solution inside of tutorials or anything else that say, here’s how you do this in general, how to do this, modify things.

[00:20:50] Scott Kingsley Clark: It’s just very difficult at this mo moment. So if we then push further into that and still don’t have any of this to leverage and educate, then we’re just disconnecting even more people from being able to do more unique experiences.

[00:21:03] Jason Tucker: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:04] Se Reed: But where is it still a MySQL database? Like is it still like, is that, or a SQL database? It’s

[00:21:10] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah.

[00:21:11] Se Reed: like with the React components, it’s just like bypassing.

[00:21:15] Scott Kingsley Clark: light. It could be like we don’t know where it could go,

[00:21:18] Se Reed: Well see that’s why I think what everyone’s pushing for right, is like everyone that’s like the new, new shiny. So like everyone wants that.

[00:21:25] Se Reed: Because that, that’s basically what’s happening. I don’t know. Know

[00:21:27] Jason Tucker: old shiny is what it is.

[00:21:29] Scott Kingsley Clark: It just depends on the scale. ’cause that the

[00:21:32] Jason Cosper: There,

[00:21:33] Scott Kingsley Clark: of that is, is the big question. How can you scale the things that you want to do in the client and everything else? With the size of a site, with the size of the data content, with the number of rest a P I requests for what you’re trying to get. All these things start to add up.

[00:21:50] Scott Kingsley Clark: And yes, you load everything in client side or load everything in server side. You can have slow, slow render times on server side. Load everything in client side, you’re gonna have slow UI ’cause things are bogged down or too many requests, so you’re gonna have slow internet or whatever that ends up doing.

[00:22:03] Scott Kingsley Clark: It’s just can be so many complications. Yeah,

[00:22:06] Jason Tucker: Scott, how much of the field’s a p i is tied into doing, like the, the multi-user editing thing that we keep hearing about is there, is there much of that being tied into it?

[00:22:17] Scott Kingsley Clark: You could say that it’s not blocking on either side. However, being able to know the structure of the content. Severely improves that ability for multi-site editing or mult multiple, multiple editing, multiple editors, like a doc gonna Google Docs and you have all the things happening, you know, what those things are and what components they are and what, where they live in the DI data architecture so that you can handle revisions and other things properly without having to worry about.

[00:22:46] Scott Kingsley Clark: Doing all this in the client side, trying to figure out, okay, where does this go? So there’s, there’s a lot of benefits to be had you, it’s not to say it’s impossible. I know that it would be very possible to do all this stuff, like all of WordPress could live forever on without the field’s a p i, but it would severely limit its ability to, to be adaptive.

[00:23:03] Scott Kingsley Clark: Its interfaces and severely limit the ability for it to be as extensible to be able to just say, Hey, I wanna add a field to this screen and I want it to go here, or I wanna add a new section, or whatever. Like that capability is severely lacking. And even in most of the admin UI screens, you can see this is evident because you can’t, as it easily add sec fields to certain sections or setting screens, especially core settings pages.

[00:23:27] Jason Tucker: Hmm.

[00:23:27] Jason Cosper: You know, I, I, I want the field’s, a p i in in p h, p in, in like classic WordPress core. Partially I mean, you know, for.

[00:23:38] Se Reed: The classic press.

[00:23:40] Jason Cosper: I, well, funny you should mention that because it, if it is in p h p, if it is in that part when people inevitably have this admin redesign, shit fit like classic press tear, shit fit about.

[00:23:58] Jason Cosper: Like, oh no, the admin’s changing. Well now we’re gonna make another classic press. And it’s with the old admin, like, you know, none of this new

[00:24:09] Se Reed: Yes, the block editor.

[00:24:10] Jason Cosper: Right? Right. So, j jd asked in the chat like, where’s my fork? It’s just like, you know, so, Weirdly for a

[00:24:19] Se Reed: do we do this?

[00:24:20] Jason Cosper: years old. I, I know that there have been some forks in the past.

[00:24:24] Jason Cosper: They’ve fizzled out whatever. For a project that’s 20 years old, I’m surprised that there haven’t been more like loud vocal forks, even if they do just like a lot of loud vocal forks of projects fizzle out in a few

[00:24:39] Se Reed: It’s because we throw parties that are called Word Camp a hundred percent. That’s the reason. ’cause we don’t, no one wants to leave the place where the parties are

[00:24:48] Jason Tucker: I think the fork is wordpress.com. Because at some point you’re gonna

[00:24:53] Se Reed: real fork.

[00:24:54] Jason Tucker: gonna take

[00:24:54] Se Reed: are we a fork word.com or is.org a fork or is.com org

[00:25:00] Jason Tucker: It’s like, which one are we building for?

[00:25:02] Se Reed: Yeah, I’m not, not sure. I have, I have a quick question.

[00:25:05] Se Reed: So it’s, it, this one’s a little more rhetorical. So just so I’m clear, you’re talking about building something that would be implementable now. Empower all the sites that exist currently. Be backwards compatible and future compatible versus a solution that is not yet unknown, it’s just not yet known and would be super complicated and would also not be backwards compatible.

[00:25:30] Scott Kingsley Clark: I’m sure they could find ways to do backwards compatibility, like the, the, the meta boxes are right now. But it’s, it’s, it’s a totally separate save request as well and separate load processes there for the hooks compatibility. But, but yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head there that. This is something that is backwards looking and forward looking at the same time.

[00:25:49] Se Reed: I just sometimes.

[00:25:49] Scott Kingsley Clark: so much more.

[00:25:51] Se Reed: They make so much sense that I’m like, I must be misunderstanding this. I must be missing something because I can’t. This is where I get frustrated with. Really full, like full on devs because I think that the problem a lot of the times with tech in general is that the devs get so excited about the next thing that’s happening, that they forget about all the cool stuff that’s happening in the things that already exist, like c s s, for example, which is like just doing all sorts of cool stuff and everybody’s like, Nope, who needs c s s anymore?

[00:26:21] Se Reed: You know? ’cause they’re just bored. Or something like, so this is what this sounds like to me, because it doesn’t make sense from a project standpoint to advocate for something that is like, not like, like to advocate against implementing something that would both ease the transition and empower, you know, the future in the past.

[00:26:45] Se Reed: Like, I, I just, I cannot grasp it, so I must be missing something.

[00:26:51] Jason Tucker: I mean, during the, during, during the q and a, we, we had a ton of times that the fields a p I was mentioned.

[00:26:59] Jason Cosper: Oh yeah.

[00:27:00] Se Reed: The Q and a at at Word camp us.

[00:27:03] Jason Tucker: Yeah. And, and you know, Scott, you were, you were there watching how, how was all that and how did that, how’d that go for you?

[00:27:10] Se Reed: did that feel? How’d that make you feel?

[00:27:12] Scott Kingsley Clark: so, so the, the whole

[00:27:15] Jason Tucker: video if we need to pull up any of it.

[00:27:18] Scott Kingsley Clark: One thing came up in one of the presentations from, I can’t remember if it was Matt or if it was gi, but the idea of like, Hey, we should take our structures of some plugins and make sure we’re using like, similar data structures. And one, one area was l m s and, and other areas we’re talked about like Ss e o, he’s like, oh, we should do that with s e o too and all these other

[00:27:37] Se Reed: Yeah. S

[00:27:38] Scott Kingsley Clark: I’m thinking to

[00:27:39] Se Reed: have tructure.

[00:27:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: Same structures and making data more portable and making configs more portable. And I’m thinking, Hey, this ties in really nicely with the fields a p i. So as soon as they announced the, the public u r l for where to go ask questions, I quickly typed on my, my phone with two or three fingers if, if I could this question about the fields a p i and said, Hey given the fact that, you know, we wanna push towards better interopability with.

[00:28:06] Scott Kingsley Clark: With things like l m s, what if we did that put that kind of power behind the field. A p i like would, can, can we do that as a, as a project? And Matt replied with some interesting responses a train of thought as well. Jason, did you have that clip You’re able to play?

[00:28:22] Jason Tucker: Yeah, I can pull it up here.

[00:28:23] Se Reed: What, what clips.

[00:28:26] Jason Tucker: It’s a clip show.

[00:28:27] Matt Mullenweg: Very early on on the Drupal front, it actually predates WordPress by a couple years. Mm-hmm. So I’ll check that out. Is caching and off by one errors. Yes. Well, like what can we do around that? So cool. L m ss question, long-term planning is great and the l m s improvements will be awesome.

[00:28:44] Matt Mullenweg: How much support can we get behind a project like the Field’s a p i, which is making progress even work on the field’s, a p i at the contributor day?

[00:28:52] Se Reed: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:53] Matt Mullenweg: have anything around it. I, I saw a hand and a half.

[00:28:56] Scott Kingsley Clark: I yelled.

[00:28:57] Matt Mullenweg: So maybe that’s also something, you know, work camp basis is coming up and there’s also other work camps would contribute today.

[00:29:01] Matt Mullenweg: So maybe we could do like a little table on that or something. I, I have to admit, I don’t, haven’t seen the latest with field api. I, so it’s making progress. I’m not aware of the latest, latest This is, you know as you might have seen like Dribble is actually exploring Gutenberg and so it might be actually really, really cool.

[00:29:18] Matt Mullenweg: Drupal adopts Gutenberg, which I think is right now, best thing about WordPress. So I was also looking like, well, what’s the best thing about Drupal we could adopt? And they have like some awesome custom, they call it c C K, custom content. Mm-hmm. Kits, I think called Field api. They call it Field api. Oh, Drupal, it’s called Field api.

[00:29:35] Matt Mullenweg: I now that it used to be called C C K. Oh, it did. Okay. All right. I’m just old school. Thank you.

[00:29:42] Scott Kingsley Clark: So it’s interesting that the fact that, like he mentioned, That like maybe we just use their field api. I’m just like, how So There’s so many complications to that. The fact that the, the code base is entirely different. The

[00:29:55] Se Reed: I love how.

[00:29:56] Scott Kingsley Clark: different, entirely different logic and, and name. They’re using namespace and, and so many other areas that are like, it’s not, you can’t really rip it out

[00:30:06] Jason Cosper: Right.

[00:30:07] Scott Kingsley Clark: on so much of Drupal itself.

[00:30:09] Scott Kingsley Clark: But it’s just,

[00:30:10] Jason Tucker: buy group

[00:30:11] Se Reed: funny, like Matt just tosses stuff out there. He is like, I don’t know anything. What’s going on with the, what’s it called? Oh yeah, we should do that. What if we had a table? Should we, what a great idea What? What if someone named

[00:30:21] Jason Cosper: get a little table going.

[00:30:24] Jason Tucker: Get a little table going. Exactly.

[00:30:27] Se Reed: just get a

[00:30:27] Jason Tucker: Are

[00:30:27] Scott Kingsley Clark: So we had that table. Yeah, we had it at contributor day and we had like awesome people like Corey and, and so many others like Ryan and Alex Stanford.

[00:30:36] Se Reed: Is it a sequel table or a sequel light table? That’s really, I think that’s really where we’re gonna have to draw the line.

[00:30:43] Scott Kingsley Clark: didn’t really store much, so it could be SQLite.

[00:30:45] Se Reed: I’m making database jokes to do, do, Hey, how come we don’t have sound effects in this show?

[00:30:52] Jason Tucker: Oh yeah. Yep. There’s a reason.

[00:30:54] Se Reed: That’s why. All right, nevermind. Alright. I guess, I mean, do we have more, because I guess we’re in overtime now.

[00:31:00] Se Reed: ’cause you know,

[00:31:00] Jason Tucker: Yeah, I, I’m, I don’t know. I’m just, I,

[00:31:03] Se Reed: I just fed up.

[00:31:04] Jason Tucker: taking, this whole idea of taking like Drupal and, and tying that in. I mean, even like, you know, we have folks in chat here are saying, you know, like, just, just get ’em to merge and, you know, there’s, I don’t

[00:31:19] Se Reed: I mean, because Matt is like, how about we just spoke my Google my, my Google my Gutenberg and make it better, and then everyone can just give me all the things that they’ve already made and I’ll assimilate them. That’s what it sounds like to me here, right? Like it’s like as long as we don’t have, someone could do some work about that.

[00:31:35] Se Reed: I don’t really have an opinion, but as long as we can just pull it in. That’s what it sounds like. I really,

[00:31:41] Jason Tucker: the code base of WordPress not matter? Is that, is that, what is that? What we’re really coming down to is just like, as long as the front end is good and wordpress.com runs well on the front end of it, and you never have to actually touch the back end of it. I is like, is that it? I don’t know.

[00:31:57] Se Reed: I just wanna say one thing as our closing word. Can I, may

[00:32:01] Jason Tucker: closing. You you already wanna close out?

[00:32:04] Se Reed: isn’t it 33? Aren’t we on overtime? We don’t have to close. I’ll just fine. I’ll just say a word, then I’ll say it. And I hope it strikes a fear deep in all of our hearts equally. Calypso, that’s all I wanted to say to everybody. Woo. I feel like the, the admin, the admin UI and Gutenberg and stuff is like, really K Calypso.

[00:32:25] Se Reed: Like Matt has an idea and like Matt is doing this idea and then she’s gonna like, boop. Everyone else has to do the idea too, because was definitely implemented in.com and not in.org in the same way at all. So that was definitely a trying to shove a.com into.org, like trickled sideways. I don’t know which way it’s trickling.

[00:32:47] Se Reed: Oh no. But I feel like this is very similar because the, even just the admin UI designs to me feel like they are representing the needs of a more.com audience. So,

[00:33:00] Jason Cosper: I, I, I just hope that the the admin UI stuff that does happen goes a little bit better than the WooCommerce like the new WooCommerce admin rollout because that was available as a a plugin. For a while. And anybody, and I know that Tucker and say you don’t really spend a ton of time with WooCommerce, but it was happening as like, I was spending a lot, a lot of time and the amount of, and I’m, I, I hope.

[00:33:30] Jason Cosper: That the developers at Automatic had, had learned a lot about it. ’cause like the Ajax calls that it was making on the backend were heavy. The, all of this stuff where like sites were like DDoSing themselves just because people were leaving admin pages open and I really

[00:33:47] Se Reed: Yourself is like really funny to me. It’s like, wow, that has to

[00:33:51] Jason Tucker: Is that just all heartbeat? Is that just all heartbeat stuff that was making that happen because of the admin or what was going on there?

[00:33:58] Jason Cosper: I mean, they, they were, they were throwing up some more dynamic stuff like sales data and things like that. But I mean, you know, we are and there has been work on the whole interactivity, a p i, so maybe that’ll get a little better. I, you know, don’t wanna necessarily throw. The WooCommerce admin developers under the bus.

[00:34:18] Jason Cosper: ’cause like they, I mean, it looks a whole hell of a lot nicer. But while it was in beta,

[00:34:24] Se Reed: update. I missed that.

[00:34:26] Jason Cosper: I mean, it, they’ve been, they worked on it for a number of years. It, it, it,

[00:34:31] Se Reed: seen it lately. I should go check it out.

[00:34:34] Jason Tucker: So maybe the fields a p I just needs to do stuff for WooCommerce. And then that’s,

[00:34:37] Se Reed: that’s how you get in the door.

[00:34:39] Jason Tucker: how we get the,

[00:34:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well that, so that’s the beauty.

[00:34:42] Jason Tucker: Matt’s

[00:34:42] Se Reed: You make it work for Tumblr and you’re in.

[00:34:45] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well, that’s the beauty, like you can use the field C P F for core stuff. We’re talking about it for core stuff. But that the big deal is, and obviously it scared, Jason Cosper completely to his bones.

[00:34:54] Se Reed: I.

[00:34:57] Scott Kingsley Clark: But seriously, you could use this in all the plugins. So let’s just imagine the big picture.

[00:35:01] Scott Kingsley Clark: Like I can have WooCommerce settings and I can have all these other screens inside of WooCommerce and WooCommerce extensions and, and gravity forms and, and give WP and whatever road plugins you want to think of. All these have different setting screens and different form needs, and obviously gravity forms is building actual forms, so they don’t really need a, a field, a p i in this sense, but they could leverage it.

[00:35:22] Scott Kingsley Clark: For a lot of different things inside of their own screens to make them more extensible. And, and someone’s adding a, a, a field to a setting, a screen inside of WordPress core can do the same exact thing within a setting screen on WooCommerce and a different, a specific tab or whatever they’re targeting.

[00:35:38] Scott Kingsley Clark: Like this becomes

[00:35:39] Se Reed: angle. I really

[00:35:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: just so easy to be used everywhere if we can get it to that point. We get everyone to leverage it. It’d be extensible. Like if you wanna extend the field’s a p I to do even more, you could do that and then you can use it for the things you wanna do. Just, just when I think about that, it just makes me super, super excited just to think about the big picture.

[00:36:00] Se Reed: I have one. I guess probably final question, especially since we already lost Cosper. What, especially now that you did contribute a, which you did a little, you, you got a little table together, you had what Corey Huard is saying here is that was the best first word camp experience ever. So I guess it’s also the only first word. Experience ever. But that’s okay. Cory you’re the best pods developer I’ve ever met. Scott Kingsley Clark? No. So here’s my question. What has to be done and how much of a hurdle is it to just to just do it? ’cause I am getting more familiar with the just Do it ethos than I ever have in my life. In, in, in relation to WordPress.

[00:36:44] Se Reed: So, What, what’s, what’s the big hurdle?

[00:36:48] Scott Kingsley Clark: The biggest hurdle I would say is, well, we need contributors to like, weigh in. Like we need to make sure we’re going the right direction. We’ve been doing research stuff and now we’ve got a couple of proof of concepts put together and we’re looking at doing a little bit more research. I’m, I’m actually pulling legitimately some feedback from.

[00:37:05] Scott Kingsley Clark: Matt’s q and a like, Hey, what if we looked at the re the fields a p i from Drupal? What does that look like and how can we learn anything from that and apply it towards ours? So there’s, it’s not like every, every piece of feedback goes away into the ether. I think everything is really helpful in getting a better big picture so that when we’re ready, we, we already have a draft proposal.

[00:37:25] Scott Kingsley Clark: It’s not really all the way done, but All we have to do is, is make sure we’re all on board with the, the direction. The reasons of course is, is one I think a lot of people get. And then the, the way that the a p I is going to be structured and looking if we can get everyone on board with that, we can get like, Companies like I’m, I’m, we’ve got like, what was it, like four or five of the people at that table work or are sponsored by GoDaddy?

[00:37:52] Scott Kingsley Clark: That’s just insane. Like, I didn’t even know these people. I, I never met any, any

[00:37:55] Se Reed: really are an

[00:37:56] Scott Kingsley Clark: in, in life. Like, so this was kind of naturally like, oh, hey, these people are showing up.

[00:38:01] Jason Tucker: Organized together in your own homes.

[00:38:04] Scott Kingsley Clark: Get resources behind this. Get these companies to say, yes, we want Fields a P I because it would be helpful for the community and also the plugins we’re building, GoDaddy has plugins for WordPress

[00:38:15] Se Reed: Okay. Wait, so just assuming the, the buy-in part could be handled, what So you said that, so the direction, all of that stuff’s really kind of like soft things that need to be done, right? Figure out the direction, agree with that, figure out the reasons, agree with that. Like, so the, the only one that I heard really that was technical is the structure specifically.

[00:38:34] Se Reed: So is that like a big hurdle that’s that’s there or is that just something that needs to be agreed on as well? Is like you have a draft structure essentially, and it would just need to be like dupe, thumbs up, thumbs upped.

[00:38:46] Scott Kingsley Clark: We have a couple of, of proof of concepts of that structure. One of them is based off the customizer, a p i, which is kinda like a soft spot in my, my heart. Not, not necessarily ’cause I love the customizer a p i, but as I started using it as a basis of the field, a p I originally, like a few years back, it was like, This, it’s very familiar for people.

[00:39:05] Scott Kingsley Clark: It’s, it’s an a p i that is the most full fledged a p i inside of Apress core currently for P h p, for interacting with forms, in this case, the customer customizer, a p i si sidebars and things like that. It is just super really, I. Concise, you know, the way the structure of the, the, the classes are.

[00:39:22] Scott Kingsley Clark: It makes a lot of sense. Then there’s also more

[00:39:25] Se Reed: I know who built

[00:39:25] Scott Kingsley Clark: structures we could use. There’s, there’s like way more we could go in leaning into the PHP seven plus space. There’s so many more ways you can think about it from computer science in a way you’re structuring your content and data, like there’s,

[00:39:38] Se Reed: It’s

[00:39:38] Scott Kingsley Clark: just so many things.

[00:39:40] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. It’s science.

[00:39:41] Se Reed: science. You’re blinding me with it.

[00:39:45] Jason Tucker: How do we

[00:39:46] Se Reed: You can keep talking. I’m just making side comments

[00:39:48] Jason Tucker: Scott, how do we make the, how do we make the table bigger? How do we make this, this, this table

[00:39:53] Se Reed: A little table, a little field.

[00:39:55] Jason Tucker: int table that, that he kept talking about. How do we make that bigger? So it’s

[00:39:59] Se Reed: But wait, I still haven’t heard any technical obstacles. You have a

[00:40:03] Jason Tucker: I know, but I think that, I

[00:40:04] Se Reed: You have

[00:40:05] Jason Tucker: this table, I think making this table bigger is what’s going to bring those technical people in.

[00:40:10] Scott Kingsley Clark: Well,

[00:40:10] Se Reed: saying, is there even, is that where we’re at? Like do you still have technical problems to solve or is this a sort of a public relations hurdle? Like a, a convincing enough core devs that it’s a good idea.

[00:40:23] Scott Kingsley Clark: Both. I, so we have, we have technical, we still have to sort out that proof of concept, like what is the a p i going to look like, the specifications. Because last time we tried to do this, we had all the feedback was, why didn’t you, why didn’t you not. Why didn’t you do it this way? Why I would’ve done it that way, and I would’ve structured this, this way.

[00:40:39] Scott Kingsley Clark: And, and we got all that feedback late in the process. And so we were hoping to pull that feedback in as, as soon as possible from core contributors, from people that would use this in their plugins to make sure that we’re covering those use cases, at least from the structure side. UI implementation can be all in a different.

[00:40:57] Scott Kingsley Clark: Tackling on a different place. We’re talking about the a p I itself so that we can leverage this across WordPress core in ultimately the long term. Then in terms of the, like, how do we grow the table? We’ve got core fields channel inside of WordPress core that make Slack. We have the The, we have the GitHub repo, which is github.com/scott Klark with a zero for the O and then slash WordPress dash fields dash api.

[00:41:24] Scott Kingsley Clark: And there is a repo. We, it’s actually been pretty active the last couple of weeks with all the people that joined that initial table, so, We’re, we’re getting lots of interest. People are still putting time in. Corey was amazing ’cause Corey was still pushing up prs even the day or two after today. Corey Qar.

[00:41:41] Scott Kingsley Clark: So the, I’m just, I’m excited because this is the most we’ve ever had at this point. Like the previous field, a p I. We didn’t have that much like interest in, in people collaborating and helping. This is the most, the biggest group we’ve had, so I, I’m feeling very positive about it. I’m insanely invested in it.

[00:41:59] Scott Kingsley Clark: Like, I don’t wanna quit until someone says, like, until Matt literally says, no, I’m not doing this ever.

[00:42:03] Se Reed: Like, that’s what he did with the with the foundation saying, Nope, no, the foundation is never gonna fund people. We’re not doing it now and we’re never gonna do it. And I was like, okay, I’m believing you at that. So if he, until he says no, and in fact, he actually said that in his talk too. I think someone said it’s not a, it’s not a yes, but it’s not a no.

[00:42:20] Se Reed: Didn’t, was it it something like that. Like there was a conversation about that. I might be putting too many things together, but I think that if you can figure out you and your. Bigger table can figure out how to get it in there. Just the a p I, the U, you know, people will figure out the UI part, they’ll, they’ll make the, like, that’s what WordPress does best, right?

[00:42:39] Se Reed: You give them a little tool and then everyone’s like, look what I can do with this tool, and comes up with like 10 million implementations of it. So like, even if it’s like, I mean, couldn’t it, would it be able to be a plugin first? Like it so it’s a plugin

[00:42:54] Scott Kingsley Clark: It was before we had a plugin. We actually had a plugin that was the a p i and then we also had a plugin that let you like, like almost like an A c F. Plugin that let you actually add fields

[00:43:05] Se Reed: Oh wow.

[00:43:05] Scott Kingsley Clark: from the ui. So like you could create new fields from the admin area and it was kinda like a very stripped down core experience.

[00:43:12] Scott Kingsley Clark: So

[00:43:12] Se Reed: I just feel like if

[00:43:13] Scott Kingsley Clark: be a plugin.

[00:43:14] Se Reed: if you could get that plugin of just the a p I component and like someone could like turn it on. You know how when you turn on Gutenberg, it just turns on and then you have other stuff, right? So you turn it on. And then everyone who can do things with that information will be, you know, be like, look at all the stuff we can do.

[00:43:32] Se Reed: And then you have even more critical mass because everyone’s like, this shouldn’t just be in a plugin. I want this in core so I can do this without having to have this be like a required plugin for something. Like, so I feel like if you, you know, Obviously there’s the implementation and UI component is really important to the project, but I think that part could be where you get critical mass as everyone just like gets really excited about using it.

[00:43:58] Jason Tucker: Or dashboard notifications that that would, that would do it too.

[00:44:02] Se Reed: Yeah,

[00:44:02] Scott Kingsley Clark: I’ll take either really at this point.

[00:44:04] Se Reed: that. That works too. That’s so cool. So I, I do wanna say we did it does look like we got you some people for your courts field, core field channel. So that’s helping Michelle’s gonna head over there. So that’s where people should go, right? If they wanna work with you on this, what, what should they do?

[00:44:20] Scott Kingsley Clark: Yeah. That’s where we’re collaborating right now. And it, if, if you’re not wanting to do anything in the public space and you’re like, Hey, I wanna contribute, but I don’t, like, I don’t want anyone to know about it. Like, if, if you’re a Drupal developer and you’re like, I don’t want anyone know I’m doing WordPress stuff you can always reach out to me.

[00:44:33] Scott Kingsley Clark: I’m, I’m on the, the Slack, Scott K. Clark with a Zero, but you can also hit me up on email like Scott at skc d de Skc d That’s the email.

[00:44:44] Se Reed: Yeah. Like if you happen to work for a company that doesn’t want this to happen, but you wanna do it anyway. Yeah.

[00:44:49] Scott Kingsley Clark: On the down low, I’ll help you contribute.

[00:44:51] Se Reed: Quiet, contributing. This is the, it’s the new. It’s the new everything. I love it.

[00:44:55] Jason Tucker: all about the quiet contributing around here.

[00:45:00] Se Reed: Thanks so much for coming on Scott and explaining all this. I feel like next year we’re gonna have you on in a few months and it’s gonna be really like, I think there could be more progress. I think you have

[00:45:09] Scott Kingsley Clark: I’m hoping we just have to keep that momentum going, and so far it’s just. It’s just rising. So I’m very, very hopeful. And like I said earlier, I’m advocating with Courtney Robertson inside of GoDaddy to become more like, get our resources behind it. Like gimme more time, give everyone else more time on the team to make this all happen.

[00:45:31] Scott Kingsley Clark: ’cause GoDaddy’s like uniquely. Positioned to give this the time it needs because other companies have other things that they’re focused on. Like automatic is focused, hyper-focused on block editor stuff. Like if so if we can just kind of fill that gap, have a gap to fill. I think we could do that. And then all these other contributors, like Corey Hug, Gart, like just are is awesome.

[00:45:54] Scott Kingsley Clark: And I’m just super excited to have everyone involved.

[00:45:57] Se Reed: yay. Especially for the loud contributors. Woo hoo.

[00:46:02] Jason Tucker: The ones in the back that were yelling.

[00:46:03] Se Reed: Yeah.

[00:46:05] Jason Tucker: Scott, thank you very much. We we’ll, we’ll, we’ll have you here in in nine more months and you’ll talk about how everything changed

[00:46:12] Scott Kingsley Clark: I hope so.

[00:46:13] Jason Tucker: Everything was, everything’s going great

[00:46:15] Scott Kingsley Clark: It was so easy.

[00:46:16] Se Reed: We were there when it happened before the Fields a p i. That’s what I want. That’s my goal for

[00:46:22] Scott Kingsley Clark: do it.

[00:46:23] Se Reed: Yeah. Does this thing even work anymore?

[00:46:32] Jason Tucker: over there. I guess not. I don’t know what’s going on here.

[00:46:36] Se Reed: We’re on some of those things that you listen to the stuff on. So go check your thing and type in WPwatercooler, but you might already listen to it ’cause you’re listening to it right now. Who knows? Anyway,