[00:00:00] Jason Tucker: This is episode number 15 of dev branch, plugin, boiler plates brought to you by InMotion hosting checkout emotion hosting for 24 7 support affordable prices that learn how you can launch your WordPress site in minutes InMotion hosting .com I’m Jason Tucker. You can find me at Jason Tucker on Twitter.
[00:00:36] Steve Zehngut: I’m Steve Zehngut. I’m the founder of Zeek interactive and I run the OC WordPress.
[00:00:43] Jason Cosper: And I’m Jason Cosper Sé Reed is on
[00:00:51] Jason Tucker: Go check us out over on apple podcasts, Google podcasts, and Spotify. Leave us a review while you’re there. We’d appreciate it.
[00:00:59] Jason Cosper: Yeah.
[00:01:00] Jason Tucker: And if you need some merch, we got some merch for you. If you would, Steve Zehngut name on your shirt, you can go check it out over wpwatercooler.com/store. Come on. Everyone wants Zehngut right across the right here.
[00:01:15] Jason Tucker: Boom. Zehngut going to be awesome. All right. I’ll make sure we do one for each last name just to make sure that Steve gets his, we’ll get one person to buy it.
[00:01:25] Steve Zehngut: I want the analytics on who’s selling the most.
[00:01:31] Jason Tucker: How’s it going, everyone? How are you doing today? Good Friday to you all. We have a friend on the show, John. Hey you doing Josh
[00:01:40] Josh Pollock: Pretty
[00:01:40] Josh Pollock: good.
[00:01:41] Jason Tucker: Tell us a little bit about you, what you got going on and then we’ll jump into boiler plate.
[00:02:14] Josh Pollock: So today I’m a freelance developer and working on a new product called plugging machine that it helps you plug in developers get started with plugins at features to plugins and chip plugins. So really excited to be working on that.
[00:02:29] Jason Tucker: It’s like we plan this all out, so cool.
[00:02:33] Josh Pollock: Five points for the claimant.
[00:02:35] Jason Tucker: Thanks man. Appreciate it. So boiler plates and WordPress doing boiler plates for plugins. I’ve written one plugin and I’m not that kind of developer. And I was like, I want to build a website. I want to get this set up. Now I need to build this one plugin. And so I’m like, all right let me figure out how to do this.
[00:02:57] Jason Tucker: Do I just slap a PHP file into a folder and call it a. Or do I need to do something else? And that’s where I started digging into different boiler plates and how to put all these pieces together. Why do you need a boiler plate? W what’s it for and why is there all this extra stuff that you’re just not going to use in your plugin that you need to package it all together with it?
[00:03:20] Josh Pollock: So this has become more complicated over time. There’s a history of people building WordPress, boiler plates generators. I found boiler plate to be too simple. The amount of stuff that you might need in WordPress plugin has really grown, but it depends on the on the project. So if you’re doing block development, there’s a lot of excess stuff that you’re talking about there, for example, Webpack, to compile things or babble to convert from JSX right.
[00:03:51] Josh Pollock: Which is what you write react in generally box. You don’t have to use JSX for. But I like to one of the things that’s nice about react. So you can’t just ship that to a browser. You need a complex tool chain. And so a boiler plate might have that in. Then you might be writing a plugin that doesn’t need any of that. And now you just have all this extra stuff. What if you’re writing a backend, the plugin that adds rest API end points, a custom database. You might need a lot of different things. You might need some PHP testing stuff like PHP unit, you might want to oppose our auto loader. So I started on the like boiler plate radical, purely for my own benefit.
[00:05:05] Josh Pollock: But
[00:05:06] Josh Pollock: the more I showed that to people were saying like, yeah, but I don’t know in advance if I need blocks and how many box and what the box or. What the block categories are. So pugging machine is something that gives you that basic boiler plate, but also gives you both the UI and a CLI to say okay, now I need a Bach. Now I need an admin page. And then it adds those files based on the things that you set up in the beginning, what’s the plugins name and what’s slug and then ask you some additional questions, but I’m trying to create something that asks the least. And create something that you can start coding right away in.
[00:05:47] Josh Pollock: Um, cause I’m a nerd for that stuff. But when I’m trying to write like a product, like a plugin, I don’t want to think about it. You know what I mean? Like I just want to write You’re muted Cosper.
[00:06:01] Jason Cosper: All I want to know is, do you have a like a wallpaper version of Clippy that takes you through this whole wizard process? Cause I, if you haven’t considered it, I’m just going to float it out there.
[00:06:16] Josh Pollock: I will take the request, right? So currently I’ve approached it from the perspective. No, this is good. This is actually genius. I’m going to do this, but I’ve gone with the website where you can like click buttons in a form and the COI and there’s an API. There is no floating Clippy.
[00:06:34] Josh Pollock: This
[00:06:34] Josh Pollock: could be the metaverse that. Like the AI version you put on your AI got glasses. And then what, who asks you the same damn questions?
[00:06:43] Steve Zehngut: Are
[00:06:43] Steve Zehngut: you saying, Jason, are you saying Josh needs a mascot?
[00:06:48] Josh Pollock: We, yes, first a mascot, but then he wants to like the mascot to ask you questions, quippy style. And I like this as in terms of adding AR for no reason,
[00:06:59] Josh Pollock: which is definitely
[00:07:00] Jason Cosper: I see that.
[00:07:01] Josh Pollock: moving forward.
[00:07:02] Jason Cosper: I see that you’re building a plugin. Would you like some help with
[00:07:05] Steve Zehngut: Wouldn’t wouldn’t wouldn’t his mascot be a Pollock like a little fish Yeah.
[00:07:15] Steve Zehngut: All
[00:07:15] Steve Zehngut: right. We’re off track.
[00:07:17] Jason Cosper: sure. Sure.
[00:07:20] Jason Tucker: What color are we going to make this?
[00:07:24] Josh Pollock: So we’ve come here today to talk about the mascot,
[00:07:28] Steve Zehngut: Yeah.
[00:07:29] Jason Cosper: Yeah.
[00:07:31] Jason Tucker: That’s about
[00:07:31] Steve Zehngut: Josh this is the water cooler.
[00:07:34] Jason Tucker: Right.
[00:07:35] Steve Zehngut: Welcome.
[00:07:36] Josh Pollock: So it’s been fun. I’ve always been the nerd for this stuff. In terms of setting things up in getting look, it’s a joy to me to have to like, figure out how to get her actions, those something. And I know most people aren’t that way. So I feel like this is a good opportunity to like, do something very Josh that can help other plugin developers get past lots of the things that are like, oh, I have to write tests, but I don’t to say. Or, oh, I’d like to write tests, but I don’t know what a test looks like. Whereas most people are really good at looking at something and going oh, I can modify that to be what I need. It’s I think that a lot of the times it’s the jump from zero to writing you to test. That can be hard. Whereas the jump from having the tests running and like looking at a test and then making, doing, cutting and pasting to the next. And modifying that a little bit to be what you need. That’s how we learned.
[00:08:35] Josh Pollock: That’s what was cool about WordPress to me was everything just worked and I can make a page and like a trial theme or something.
[00:08:43] Jason Tucker: So if you go for it,
[00:08:45] Jason Cosper: Yeah the test thing was exciting to me. I know that I still have to write the test. You’re not going to write them for me, but I know that when myself, like I’m not. As a good about writing tests and everything else for some of the smaller one-off plugins that I do to scratch an itch and things like that.
[00:09:11] Jason Cosper: I’m sure that Jason, like when he said like I’ve written one plugin, I’m sure. I don’t want to speak for you, but I’m pretty sure that you probably didn’t even think about writing tests for that or anything else. So having something that, that kind of helps nudge you in that direction is a good thing.
[00:09:33] Jason Cosper: And something that I’m excited about.
[00:09:36] Jason Tucker: Yeah my next thing was, oh crap. I’m getting pull requests now. How the hell do I do that? No, but the boiler plate part of this is interesting because it’s that basic piece. Just it’s the it’s the foundation in which you’re going to build off of. And it seems like for you, Josh, you’re building a dynamic version of the, of that boiler plate that people are going to be then be coding off of what kind of questions are you going to end up asking in order to be able to determine like, What do I need to throw in here?
[00:10:11] Jason Tucker: So that way, this person’s not having to do this manually, I’m just going to go grab all the components are all the pieces that I need to throw it together and make it so that it’s easy to.
[00:10:22] Josh Pollock: Yeah. So some things are like are you going to use react, that really changes your WordPress plug in more and more. We’re using react, not just for blocks. I’m building like an admin screen right now for for a client’s WordPress plugin where it’s a little mini react app. It using the same sort of features same, the same sort of build tool as WordPress has for react and walks.
[00:10:50] Josh Pollock: So that kind of stuff. Do you envision needing like advanced PHP stuff, tests auto loader, that stuff. And so then you can start to build on that. You can add more blocks, add more admin pages things like, do you need custom post types? Do you need custom taxonomy? That kind of thing to get started, just so that way there’s the infrastructure in there. That’s at the level that I’m at now that I’ve got running now in, then I think the next step is being able to act on top of that. Once you have like tests set up and you have admin pages, like create a basic test for does your admin page show up? I think people put a lot of Concern when they start getting with testing of like, how am I going to test every little thing? It’s I don’t know, like that’s a lot of work, but if you have a test that will do your plugin with WordPress, that’s going to catch so many errors. If you make the dome error where you like, just have a syntax problem and it doesn’t look at it, if you have one test that will, it’s your plugin, it starts ex like initiating classes from it. You’re gonna all of a sudden have a little bit. Of confidence when your tests run, like at least these classes, I can instantiate them and they’re not going to cause fatal errors right in, that’s going to catch so many little things without even having to sit there and figure out how to write really good tests that cover everything.
[00:12:25] Steve Zehngut: What if you’re like me and you never have any bugs,
[00:12:29] Josh Pollock: I don’t know. I’ve never worked with anybody like
[00:12:32] Josh Pollock: that. I’ve never met a developer that. What was it? This, the thing is I think that a lot of people get defensive about bugs. Cause it’s like, whereas like it’s an emergent property of software
[00:12:47] Jason Tucker: Let’s load up. Steve’s get hub for a moment.
[00:12:49] Steve Zehngut: Please don’t
[00:12:51] Josh Pollock: I don’t know. Maybe Steve’s magic.
[00:12:53] Josh Pollock: I’ve never looked at it as code.
[00:12:54] Steve Zehngut: no, I know, of course I have bugs but you’re
[00:12:57] Steve Zehngut: actually, Josh, you make a good point though. Actually bugs should be celebrated, right? Especially if you can replicate it, you can solve it. You can squash it. That should be celebrated.
[00:13:07] Josh Pollock: Yeah.
[00:13:08] Jason Tucker: where Clippy comes out and starts. Dancing gets all super excited.
[00:13:11] Steve Zehngut: Pawlik.
[00:13:13] Josh Pollock: yeah, I like that. We’re going to workshop the could be version here. if somebody is watching out there and wants to make me a Clippy that has like a Whirlpool with a paperclip coming up and said, maybe I would appreciate that.
[00:13:30] Josh Pollock: I
[00:13:30] Jason Cosper: Maybe a paper clip coming out of the head and to satisfy Steve a Pollock under the arm.
[00:13:38] Steve Zehngut: Now we’re talking.
[00:13:39] Jason Tucker: There we go.
[00:13:41] Josh Pollock: I definitely the branding for this. I’ve used the, like I’m the hero, icon, the what’s WordPress. I have the dash icon for plugin installed. That’s the logo and music. Anybody is willing to come on the internet and suggest better. Look at us. I don’t do branding. But I like this white pill.
[00:14:01] Jason Tucker: let’s so with the, in regards to the the the way in which different developers approach, picking boiler plates, setting them up, getting them figured out, figuring out what goes into what w what are you doing with your product that is going to make this much easier, like to, for that developer?
[00:14:26] Josh Pollock: For the most part, I’ve looked around a lot and talked with a bunch of developers that have I guess probably three different categories of what we will call boiler plate one, which is probably the most common is taking the glass project, making a copy of it and doing a find and replace.
[00:14:45] Jason Cosper: Yeah, that’s a that’s I edit my wife’s podcast and that is exactly how I do it in logic. I take her the last episode that I edited pull out the main part, like sandwich, the credits before and after, and then boom, it’s done. It’s not just developers, it’s also a podcast editors.
[00:15:11] Jason Tucker: Definitely.
[00:15:12] Josh Pollock: the advantage of this is that it naturally evolves over time. There’s no, backporting, it’s the, it’s not managing a whole nother thing. If you’re a small agency, one of the reasons why I’m doing this is that there isn’t time for this kind of work. If you’re a small agency or a small shop, like having somebody do this, it takes time because the next step is you have to maintain like a get hub repo, that’s a beginner cider or beginner plug. And then people download that and do a find and replace. Maybe there’s a CLI skirt that’s in there. Maybe there’s not right. To do the five minimum.
[00:15:49] Jason Tucker: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Josh Pollock: But that feels better when you think like off the top, but it means that somebody has to like, maintain that somebody has to go into those backwards compatibility.
[00:16:00] Josh Pollock: Those changes in that based on oh, we have a problem in our current project. Let me change it. In the boilerplate. And then I think some people definitely have a form that set up they can go to on the internet and people maintain these with boiler plate generators, open source in a third agency in the past.
[00:16:21] Josh Pollock: So those are
[00:16:22] Josh Pollock: The three things that exist. But they generally tend to be very stagnant. Yeah. WP pab.com brand. So WordPress plugin, boilerplate, I’ve used it classical there’s a few more. Those are neat. And that’s I started with that exact progression. I took a plug and I had developed, I turned it into a boiler plate. I wrote a little CLI script that could change the names. And then I had two different versions, one that like had all the things and one with just nothing. And then it wasn’t useful to me cause what if I made the wrong choice? What if I needed those things later? What if I needed data walk? I was back to cutting out. Since that was the journey that I went on with this it’s like the source code that I’m working from here in terms of the WordPress plugin is very much pasted out of other plugins that I’ve worked on. But being able to not just have a boiler plate to start, but also to type a few commands and be like, oh, I want a block now. And there’s just another block that works magically is a step beyond. Boiler plate, which already existed. And that’s what
[00:17:37] Josh Pollock: I’m looking at now, because yes, the setting up the plugin slows me down and waste time when I’m doing plugin development. But the other thing that slows me down is I know in my head that I need a block and then it’s going to look roughly like this and then remembering how to do a block. She needs like searching through and finding the last time I did it or going to the year. These are why people are good at being developed. I think I’m good at WordPress development because I know where to find the answer to things
[00:18:10] Jason Tucker: Yeah.
[00:18:11] Josh Pollock: and, but that’s time. And so the more that we can, I hope the more that I can help other people just I need a book, I need to use a test.
[00:18:22] Josh Pollock: I need a rest API endpoint, whatever that is, the more time they can spend on like polishing the plugin, making sure it looks. Everything works and that’s a better end user experience, right? Like those are the things that there’s a finite amount of time that everybody stay.
[00:18:39] Jason Tucker: I think that, I think the challenge you’re going to have is in figuring out like what’s everyone has a coding style. Everyone has a different way of doing things, making yours, not be annoying for everyone else. You know what I mean? Cause you get in there and you look you look at your code from from a week ago and you’re like, who the hell wrote this?
[00:19:01] Josh Pollock: Yeah.
[00:19:01] Jason Tucker: of thing where it’s you just got to make sure that you’re able to, or whoever’s going to start working on this, can look at it and go man, this guy made all these decisions and now I have to like, live with them.
[00:19:13] Steve Zehngut: Sorry, Jason, I can’t relate to that. My husband perfect. Since
[00:19:17] Steve Zehngut: 1995.
[00:19:18] Jason Cosper: Cut to just a few years ago before the Gutenberg running started to, to really take hold and
[00:19:28] Steve Zehngut: Is that a verb?
[00:19:30] Jason Cosper: Yeah the Gutenberg running. Absolutely.
[00:19:33] Josh Pollock: that’s
[00:19:33] Jason Cosper: Yeah. And but everybody was coming out with their own theme, boiler plates where it’s oh I’m doing this with with bourbon and Boy just generally like tailwind, I know that there are people who we’re fond of that or tacky ons or whatever CSS framework that they were hot for.
[00:20:02] Jason Cosper: Bootstrap, things like that. And then. Look at, get hub. How many abandoned boiler plate projects there are for theme stuff? I went to, like, when I knew that we were talking about this, I went to look through and see what the state of boiler plate stuff was for plugins.
[00:20:27] Jason Cosper: And honestly, there’s not a lot. I we mentioned the WP. Pb.me which takes Devin Vinsons boiler plate and has like a generator, a very simple generator. But like you look at there was one that was going around for a while. WP reacts, starter abandoned model waste who does great work has had.
[00:20:56] Jason Cosper: The Gutenberg boiler plate for Gutenberg developers he’s moved on to another project create Guten block. So all of these things that people are using, like the landscape is not that, wide right now. So I think that it’s interesting and it’s great. Somebody actually has decided to concentrate and focus on this and think about it in a way that will help developers.
[00:21:36] Jason Cosper: And it seems like this is something I assume that this will not just be wake. You’re just giving this away. You’re giving all your work away for free. You want to have a business model behind this, which I think is a good thing.
[00:21:53] Josh Pollock: yeah. I think it would be great if this was a thing that existed for free, but
[00:22:01] Josh Pollock: I’m not going to build that.
[00:22:02] Josh Pollock: I at the economics of open source I have spent a lot of time looking at in the WordPress community. What does it take to do something community backed? And my answer is not worth it, it’s just not worth the energy and it’s not going to work. I think that. This is something where lots of people have started really awesome projects. In terms of boiler plates, you mentioned about five or six. I could give you a longer list if you want. I’ve done a lot of research and why should somebody keep working on this in less? It’s really valuable to them. It’s valuable to their business. It’s really valuable to their. And lots of agencies have these internally for site development that they’ve maintained, right? Because they’re doing tons of sites, those exist, but they’re all specific to a business. And I know that for this to work, people have to pay for it.
[00:23:04] Josh Pollock: That keeps my time. This would be fun. I would love it for a lot of people pay me for this and I can do it, spend a lot of time on it. But I think that’s part of the promise behind a paid project is like, Hey, y’all pay money for this. And I won’t keep maintaining it for you. Things don’t happen for free and open source.
[00:23:23] Josh Pollock: Somebody’s got to pay for it. And I think that there’s a lot of projects that you mentioned that were cool, but I’m not following any of those developers for going where the money is. And it just, isn’t in building free dev tools for work.
[00:23:41] Jason Cosper: And we see all of these plugin acquisitions that have been happening and a lot of them are happening on the majority of them are happening on plugins that are, have premium solutions. And if they don’t have a premium solution behind them, the idea is okay, we can start monetizing.
[00:24:03] Jason Cosper: We’re not just giving this away for free. The plugins that I see hosts and agencies and places like that giveaway for free. Like you said, unless it’s a core part of their business and someone is paying to have them develop this or have them keep pushing on this. It’s just not getting updated as much as it should, or it just ends up becoming abandoned.
[00:24:32] Josh Pollock: I think the push for everything for free in WordPress, when it comes to plugins and
[00:24:36] Josh Pollock: themes, like it’s really hurt the ECOS. Great. It’s really put a lot of, and I know I went through this with caldera forms, that was the plugin that I used to build. And tried to turn into a business we’d already given away too much. And it was really hard to eke out features that people would pay for we’d already given away so much. And and get past that expectation that they should be. in there, that made it an impossible business to solve for. And I think that’s something that a lot of people have dealt with. And I don’t know, that’s the way it is. Like businesses cost money to run and have to make money.
[00:25:22] Jason Tucker: Steve, you threw a couple of links in the chat. Did you wanna, did you want to share.
[00:25:27] Steve Zehngut: Those are a couple of things that we’ve that we maintain internally for ourselves, but we release them out to the public. So we have a theme called wingspan. That’s a
[00:25:35] Steve Zehngut: started theme that we build that is a tailwind starter theme that we, we use for all of our own. Projects, but we maintain it internally and we also release it to the public. And then we’ve also got a a package of WordPress utilities that we reuse over and over again, that we’ve also released out to the public as well.
[00:25:54] Josh Pollock: Yeah. There’s a ton of cool packages that exist like 10 up for example, makes a ton of open source stuff, their GitHub repo including the WP skeleton, which is the WordPress site starter point for new tenant pack sites. Like the WDS human-made everybody’s publishing lots of cool packages and that’s awesome that you’re. Keeping your stuff open source, Steve, for other people to use. Also that it’s one. I know that we’re going to have to get back. We got talked about this earlier, but how great is talent, right?
[00:26:31] Steve Zehngut: Oh
[00:26:31] Josh Pollock: And an example of a business in open-source toy business that makes all of our advisees. I built pug in Michigan’s UI with it.
[00:26:42] Josh Pollock: Cause if not, I would’ve had to hire somebody. I can’t do user interface, work that well, but I spent $150 on tailwind application UI, and I think it worked out pretty well compared to hiring somebody, to build me a user interface.
[00:26:59] Josh Pollock: And I think that’s like the value of these things, but since tailwind. Has started having paid options, and an open source CSS framework. But now there’s the tailwind UI, and there’s other things that they’re doing to monetize it. He’s got five people working for him. Adam does now Tailwind’s advancing way faster than it ever did. And there’s these cool paid pro products like going UI that we can all use that $150 saves a lot of
[00:27:30] Steve Zehngut: So when you I cannot say enough good things about, we use it all the time.
[00:27:35] Josh Pollock: Yeah. And I think that it shows that kind of thing. Glare is another example of an open source project. That’s been well monetized.
[00:27:44] Steve Zehngut: Yeah.
[00:27:45] Steve Zehngut: We’re big. Laravel developers here.
[00:27:48] Josh Pollock: yeah. And so I think that it works. I think there’s a lot of people who have walked around and looked at. Okay, WordPress ecosystem and built their own thing and it really works. And I think that can happen in WordPress. I’m hoping having worked on developer pools in the past and now doing this, I’m hoping that we can build a show that there’s a business model where a developer tooling is worth paying for, because it’s a. In the long-term right. That setting up a new plugin, figuring out how to get react and all the other things set up can take hours.
[00:28:28] Steve Zehngut: Where the value is. And you said this on telling you, what do you pay 150 bucks or whatever the subscription is, you think about how much you’d pay a designer to create all of those layouts. Just think about the value that they’re giving you for that, that, that little thing,
[00:28:46] Jason Cosper: See, but it just actually I think we can bring this all back around to WordPress and WordPress project was around for quite some time. Before a lot of people started figuring out how to monetize things. So we run into this whole cohort of people who are like, oh, I should be able to build my site with nothing but free stuff.
[00:29:09] Jason Cosper: And you can, but it. You might end up with an abandoned plugin. You might end up with things that don’t work quite right. That you, because it was free now you have to troubleshoot it in support forms and dig through all these multiple different places. But with tailwind and larval, they figured it out.
[00:29:35] Jason Cosper: How to charge early enough in the life cycle of their products that now they can in the case of tailwind, they can hire more developers in the case of wearable they’ve got a robust ecosystem that, that has been built out around them.
[00:29:57] Steve Zehngut: As we’ve said, many times on this show free is not free
[00:30:01] Steve Zehngut: and it could end up, it could end up costing you a lot more in the long run.
[00:30:06] Josh Pollock: Yeah, And I, but also I think what we should give the WordPress ecosystem credit that it has evolved. But the things that you can do on a root commerce site without writing code, a really impressive today,
[00:30:20] Steve Zehngut: Totally.
[00:30:20] Josh Pollock: but basically
[00:30:22] Josh Pollock: you’ve got to get into. And I get it. Like maybe we, people who work on WordPress sites sometimes I think get a perspective.
[00:30:31] Josh Pollock: That’s a little skewed because nobody’s hiring me in, unless there isn’t a WooCommerce Adam that does what the business needs. Like I don’t build WooCommerce sites. I get called, I get hired to create custom functionality for work. We’re like, oh, we have these three plugins. And we need to like when this does this to like, do this with this one right
[00:30:52] Josh Pollock: now, it kind of work, or we need a custom integration.
[00:30:55] Josh Pollock: And so then I get in there and I’m like, oh crap, why doesn’t it do this? It should do this. But I sometimes worry that like WordPress developers, as a result, missed all the stories where people are like,
[00:31:07] Josh Pollock: oh man, I was crazy idea for a business and are able to piece it together with six WooCommerce, add ons and three other plugins.
[00:31:15] Jason Tucker: Yeah.
[00:31:15] Josh Pollock: A little bit of Xavier and they never write code. It’s impressive what you can do.
[00:31:20] Jason Tucker: Before we wrap up, one of the questions that was asked in our chat is when’s this going to be available?
[00:31:28] Steve Zehngut: Come on Josh,
[00:31:30] Jason Tucker: talked to talk
[00:31:31] Jason Tucker: 90 to walk the
[00:31:32] Jason Tucker: walk
[00:31:32] Steve Zehngut: mind to answer the question?
[00:31:34] Josh Pollock: So I’m going to give the honest answer, but a week or two
[00:31:37] Josh Pollock: Which from a work from a developer, you know,
[00:31:41] Jason Tucker: Cause Jim has money in hand and he wants
[00:31:44] Jason Tucker: to, uh, he, he wasn’t. a week or two of calendar time or development time.
[00:31:52] Josh Pollock: So here’s the thing. I also have to make a living, right? This is
[00:31:55] Josh Pollock: like I have
[00:31:56] Steve Zehngut: Okay. So when I so a week or two, I think we’re thinking, we’re saying 20, 23.
[00:32:02] Josh Pollock: No. Okay. So the honest answer is that I need to go over some of these things that it does, and make sure that they’re. Like, I just need to go over some things with a fine tooth pen and also comb, I guess this is The thing
[00:32:14] Josh Pollock: The other thing that I need to do is add e-commerce so you can physically give me money.
[00:32:19] Josh Pollock: I
[00:32:19] Jason Tucker: There we go
[00:32:21] Josh Pollock: that’s like the big feature that I haven’t added, but that’s not a big, hard, complicated thing. About boiler plates, GS.
[00:32:29] Steve Zehngut: Yeah. I was going to say, if you’re using a fine tooth pen, you’re doing it wrong.
[00:32:32] Josh Pollock: No, but I want to go over things that I’ve worked on and be like, does that still does the block that it generate actually compile that’s not good if I’ve been very much focused on like getting back to work. Let’s just double-check that all these things, like you got a custom post type, like you get a custom post type, not a fatal error, that kind of thing. QA stuff that I need to do, and build it in like
[00:32:55] Jason Tucker: ship it right. Just ship
[00:32:56] Jason Tucker: it. Steve,
[00:32:57] Steve Zehngut: channel, channel your inner Steve, and just ship it.
[00:33:02] Jason Tucker: doesn’t make money off of any of this stuff that he does. He just puts it out in the world.
[00:33:07] Steve Zehngut: Yeah.
[00:33:07] Jason Cosper: I will say I know we’re going a little bit long, but this little message over my shoulder here should have been done is better than perfect in three months late.
[00:33:20] Jason Cosper: Think about it.
[00:33:21] Josh Pollock: anyway,
[00:33:23] Jason Cosper: Okay.
[00:33:25] Jason Tucker: Love it. Love it.
[00:33:28] Josh Pollock: I can bullshit you coming up week, but
[00:33:31] Jason Tucker: Josh, I want to say thank you very much for coming on the show with us. The good and the bad of debut WPwatercooler shows is we do a half an hour. Sometimes we do we do three minutes late, so Hey things happen, but I want to say thank you very much for taking your time out, to hang out with us.
[00:33:46] Jason Tucker: We really appreciate it. And we’ll have links to all this sort of stuff in our show notes. Talk to you all later. Here’s our outro. Go over to w water Corp com slash subscribe to this content and all the other content that we have going on. If you’re listening to this as a podcast, we also do another podcast called WP. WPwatercooler go check that out as well. Talk to you all later. Bye bye.