EP460 – From Wish to Commit: The WordPress 6.4 Wishlist

Episode Transcription

Sé Reed
Uh, what? Yes.

Jason Cosper
This is episode number 460 of WPwatercooler from Wish to Commit, the WordPress 6.4 wish

Sé Reed
Uh, what? Yes.

Sé Reed
[singing]

Sé Reed
[singing]

Sé Reed
Oh yeah, we should probably start.

Sé Reed
Oh yeah, we should probably start.

Jason Cosper
list.

Sé Reed
Oh, I’m first. I’m @sereedmedia

Sé Reed
@sereedmedia on all the things.

Sé Reed
Twitter, for life.

Sé Reed
Next, never.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
And y’all know who it is.

Sé Reed
[laughing]

Jason Cosper
It’s your boy, Jason Cosper, AKA the Substitute Teacher, back at it again on the world’s most influential WordPress podcast.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Jason Cosper
Speaking of podcasts, please go follow us over on Apple podcasts, Audible, Spotify,

Sé Reed
I feel like I should crumple up a piece of paper and throw it at you. Hold on.

Nyasha G
[Silence]

Sé Reed
I feel like I should crumple up a piece of paper and throw it at you. Hold on.

Jason Cosper
I guess, and hang out with us over in the discord.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
See, thanks. Things, things are a little, uh, loosey goosey today.

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Sé Reed
I’m gonna. (laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
[ Laughter ]

Jason Cosper
Uh, we have a, uh, a friend with us as well. Uh, Jason Tucker is off on assignment. Say is throwing spit wads and we’ve got our friend Nye with us.

Sé Reed
Like a good 80s movie.

Sé Reed
[inaudible]

Sé Reed
You’re also the interim marketing, this title is so ridiculous, interim marketing team co-rep

Jason Cosper
Nye, how about you go ahead and take a second and introduce yourself? [Pause for group work]

Nyasha G
Hi, I’m Nyasha. Everybody calls me Ny, and I am a WordPress developer. That’s my title right now, because I am looking for work. So if you’re hiring, I’m looking for work. Yeah, so I contribute to Open Source, so I project to WordPress and marketing.

Sé Reed
You’re also the interim marketing,

Jason Cosper
Alright. Very awesome.

Sé Reed
this title is so ridiculous, interim marketing team co-rep co-rep on the Make WordPress Marketing team.

Sé Reed
on the Make WordPress Marketing team. All right, very good.

Sé Reed
All right, very good. And she’s not in Britney Spears’s living room.

Nyasha G
So you can catch me there as well. Oh, sorry.

Jason Cosper
So yeah, I mean, yeah.

Sé Reed
And she’s not in Britney Spears’ living room.

Nyasha G
I’m not, I wish. I’m channeling my inner Britney Spears. I’m so tired. I’m too tired.

Sé Reed
Jackie, I feel like you should be doing some dancing.

Sé Reed
I feel like you should be doing some dancing. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. All right, so speaking of dancing,

Sé Reed
All right, so speaking of dancing, wait,

Jason Cosper
That’s Christine Aguilar.

Sé Reed
wait, I was gonna say,

Sé Reed
I was gonna say, ’cause I mentioned Britney Spears,

Sé Reed
’cause I mentioned Britney Spears, so I was like, I’m like a genie in a bottle, baby.

Sé Reed
so I was like, I’m like a genie in a bottle, baby,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
But that is Christina Aguilera.

Sé Reed
but that is Christina Aguilera.

Sé Reed
Oh, man.

Sé Reed
Oh, man.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
This will be the Milli Vanilli incident all over again.

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
It’s fine. It’s fine. Extreme. Yeah. Definitely the same kind of band, Extreme and Milli Vanilli.

Nyasha G
(laughs)

Sé Reed
Yeah, really, really, versus,

Sé Reed
Yeah, really, really, versus, hmm, what is it?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
what is it?

Sé Reed
– Extreme.

Sé Reed
– Extreme.

Sé Reed
– Extreme, I got them this time.

Sé Reed
I got them this time. They need their own.

Sé Reed
They need their own, anyway.

Sé Reed
Anyway.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
Also, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Also, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera.

Jason Cosper
Right. Well, that’s a lot closer.

Sé Reed
But anyway, I digress. We digress.

Sé Reed
But anyway, I digress.

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Nyasha G
[silence]

Sé Reed
We digress.

Sé Reed
Um, today, speaking of genies and bottles,

Sé Reed
Today, speaking of genies and bottles, whomever wrote them, we are talking about our From

Sé Reed
whomever wrote them, uh, we are talking about our “From Wishes to Fishes.”

Jason Cosper
Thank you.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Sé Reed
Wishes to Fishes.

Sé Reed
I was trying to make some sort of, uh, pun with, like,

Sé Reed
I was trying to make some sort of a pun with like, you know,

Sé Reed
you know, kisses like K-S-S-E-S.

Sé Reed
kisses like K S S E S. But I thought that was like a little

Sé Reed
But I thought that was like a little too,

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Sé Reed
too I was like wishes and kisses, but like no, but someday

Sé Reed
I was like wishes and kisses, but like, no.

Nyasha G
Yeah.

Sé Reed
But someday I’m gonna make a pun for that.

Sé Reed
I’m going to make a pun for that. But today it’s about

Sé Reed
But today it’s about from wishlist to commit.

Sé Reed
wishlist to commit. So let’s like to look at what we’re gonna

Sé Reed
So let’s like to look at what we’re gonna be putting,

Sé Reed
be putting, putting out there in six four, because Nye over here

Sé Reed
putting out there in 6/4, because Nye over here and I are both on the 6/4,

Sé Reed
and I are both on the six four, what are we called?

Sé Reed
what are we called? Release squad.

Sé Reed
Release squad.

Jason Cosper
Yeah, the release.

Sé Reed
Which always makes me think about Taylor Swift.

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Sé Reed
which always makes me think about Taylor Swift.

Jason Cosper
Hey, swizz.

Nyasha G
(laughing) (laughing)

Sé Reed
So today’s show is brought to you by White Women Pop Stars.

Sé Reed
So today’s show is brought to you by

Nyasha G

Sé Reed
white women pop stars.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
(audience laughing)

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Jason Cosper
Um, so Josepha, uh, just a few, um, what a little over a week ago, um,

Sé Reed
[AUDIO OUT]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(indistinct) – And he has no dreams for six, four.

Jason Cosper
prompted over on the make WordPress blog, asking effectively like, Hey,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
what’s on your wishlist for WordPress 6.4. And, uh, we were looking for topics to do while, uh, while Tucker was, uh,

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
indisposed and, uh, we thought, you know what?

Sé Reed
And he has no dreams for 6’4″.

Jason Cosper
No, no, he has, uh, I mean, right.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
(laughs) He’s like, “I don’t even care.”

Sé Reed
He’s like, “I don’t even care.” [laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Jason Cosper
Yeah, he’s he’s just kind of like yeah, whatever like well, they’ll figure it out without me. It’s cool

Sé Reed
[laughs] I’ll put whatever they put in there

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
I’ll put whatever they put in there and it will make sense or it won’t.

Jason Cosper
Right

Sé Reed
and it will make sense or it won’t.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
It must be nice to be so practical.

Sé Reed
It must be nice to be so practical.

Jason Cosper
Absolutely

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
It feels, sounds like it feels really common.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
We do

Sé Reed
Sounds like it feels really common.

Sé Reed
We miss you, Tucker.

Sé Reed
We miss you, Tucker.

Sé Reed
Alright. We do.

Sé Reed
All right. I do, always.

Sé Reed
Always.

Jason Cosper
So, yeah

Sé Reed
I like that you said you kind of asked the community, which I think is really funny,

Sé Reed
[silence]

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
Joseph, I kind of asked the community and she’s gotten a fair, I’m scrolling pretty fast, but I mean if you can

Sé Reed
I like that you said you kind of asked the community,

Nyasha G
[ Pause ]

Sé Reed
which I think is really funny, because all of these wish lists,

Jason Cosper
>> Thank you.

Sé Reed
because all of these wish lists, they all have the…

Sé Reed
they all have the…

Sé Reed
There is a bit of an asterisk on this one, actually, but they all have kind of the addendum

Sé Reed
There is a bit of an asterisk on this one, actually, but they all have kind of the addendum that, like,

Sé Reed
that like everything has to be approved by the release lead

Sé Reed
everything has to be approved by the release lead, and so, you know, we can all wish upon a star,

Sé Reed
and so you know we can all wish upon a star but we also need our fairy god

Sé Reed
but we also need our fairy godparents to approve them

Sé Reed
parents to um approve them and to grant our wishes

Sé Reed
and to grant our wishes.

Jason Cosper
Sure. Uh, you know, I’ve, I’ve, uh, seen blessed tasks.

Sé Reed
Which incidentally is not unlike in the actual core track,

Sé Reed
which incidentally is not unlike in the actual core track

Nyasha G
[ Pause ]

Sé Reed
which has blessed tasks.

Sé Reed
which has blessed tasks have you have you have you experienced this

Sé Reed
Have you experienced this, either of you?

Sé Reed
either of you we’ve have we talked about this on the show

Sé Reed
Have we talked about this on the show? It’s literally called blessed, like the tag for, so something gets in as a feature, right?

Sé Reed
It’s literally called blessed like the tag for so something gets in as a feature, right?

Jason Cosper
I’ve seen these sort of like, you know, go forth and do this sort of. this sort of… ramp. [silence]

Nyasha G
(silence) I am, I’m Southern, so I thought those were like

Sé Reed
We’ll have a track ticket and then when that ticket has been approved to be part of a release,

Sé Reed
We’ll have a track ticket. And then when that ticket has been approved to be part of a release, it’s, it’s been blessed.

Sé Reed
it’s been blessed.

Sé Reed
So that’s it.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[silence]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Nyasha G
people saying, all right, have a good day.

Jason Cosper
Well, at least it’s not the Southern blessing of, “Oh, bless your heart.”

Nyasha G
Like, be blessed.

Sé Reed
[laughter]

Nyasha G
Well, now I feel really stupid.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Nyasha G
I’m like, what? You’re like the, the blet? I’m like the ones where they’re wishing you a good day?

Sé Reed
[laughter]

Nyasha G
Are you talking about that?

Sé Reed
I can’t imagine that it translates to other languages well either,

Sé Reed
I can’t imagine that it translates to other languages well either,

Nyasha G
Ah, here we go.

Sé Reed
let alone, you know, just like regions of the United States,

Sé Reed
let alone, you know, just like regions of the United States,

Nyasha G
(laughs) Oh yeah, so shady.

Sé Reed
because–

Sé Reed
because–

Sé Reed
[silence] (laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
Cuz that’s that’s the dismissive sort of blessing.

Sé Reed
That’s the rejected ones.

Sé Reed
That’s the rejected ones.

Sé Reed
Oh, there’s blessed tasks

Sé Reed
Oh, there’s blessed tasks

Nyasha G
It’s so shady.

Sé Reed
and there’s bless your heart tasks.

Sé Reed
and there’s bless your heart tasks.

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Nyasha G
There’s like the warning, like don’t even,

Sé Reed
Yeah.

Sé Reed
Yeah.

Nyasha G
don’t even look at these. I’m like, okay. (laughs)

Sé Reed
There are probably, actually we should use those

Sé Reed
There are probably, actually we should use those

Nyasha G
Oh boy. Let’s do it, let’s do it.

Jason Cosper
You [silence]

Sé Reed
to rank these ideas that we see on here.

Sé Reed
to rank these ideas that we see on here.

Sé Reed
We’d be like, is that a blessed task

Sé Reed
We’d be like, is that a blessed task

Sé Reed
or a bless your heart task?

Sé Reed
or a bless your heart task?

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
(laughing)

Sé Reed
It’s our own like, you know, like,

Sé Reed
It’s our own like, you know, like,

Jason Cosper
(laughs)

Nyasha G
Just blow my mind.

Sé Reed
are they or aren’t they, but blessed or bless your heart?

Sé Reed
are they or aren’t they, but blessed or bless your heart?

Jason Cosper
[AUDIO OUT]

Sé Reed
Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious. We should actually do that. I think that the connotations

Sé Reed
Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious. We should actually do that. I think that the connotations

Nyasha G
It does.

Sé Reed
of that particular term have been in discussion, have been mentioned occasionally,

Sé Reed
of that particular term have been in discussion, have been mentioned occasionally,

Sé Reed
sporadically throughout, but it does have a weird connotation. So it does kind of feel like fairy

Sé Reed
sporadically throughout, but it does have a weird connotation. So it does kind of feel like fairy

Sé Reed
godparents are like blessing your wish list, right? Like, it’s a little bit of that. Anyway,

Sé Reed
godparents are like blessing your wish list, right? Like, it’s a little bit of that. Anyway,

Jason Cosper
Yeah, for sure. Sure.

Nyasha G
[ Pause ]

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Sé Reed
Anyway, also apparently this one, which we were trying to figure out slightly before

Sé Reed
Anyway, also apparently this one, which we were trying to figure out slightly before

Sé Reed
the show, which both Nye and I don’t know the answer to because even though we’re on

Sé Reed
the show, which both Nye and I don’t know the answer to because even though we’re on

Sé Reed
the cohort, but apparently it’s a shorter timeframe, but I’m not sure why it’s a shorter

Sé Reed
the cohort, but apparently it’s a shorter timeframe, but I’m not sure why it’s a shorter

Sé Reed
timeframe.

Sé Reed
timeframe.

Sé Reed
Is it just like the third release is like shorter because of like the holiday season?

Sé Reed
Is it just like the third release is like shorter because of like the holiday season?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
I don’t actually know the answer to that, but apparently we have less time than other

Sé Reed
I don’t actually know the answer to that, but apparently we have less time than other

Jason Cosper
Yeah, traditionally, um, traditionally the, the, the release that, um, third

Sé Reed
releases.

Sé Reed
releases.

Sé Reed
(audio garbled)

Sé Reed
(audio garbles) Right.

Sé Reed
Right.

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
release of the year has historically, at least up until I think it was last year gone out in like the December timeframe, but a lot of people groused about that because of, uh, the various holidays, the new year, stuff like that. And I know that there are web.

Sé Reed
A lot of, don’t push production on a Friday.

Sé Reed
a lot of don’t push production on a Friday.

Jason Cosper
Right, a lot of web hosts back when I was working over at WP Engine, that

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughs) Right, right.

Sé Reed
(phone chimes)

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Sé Reed
– Right, right.

Jason Cosper
December release, they wouldn’t push and I think they still don’t, they won’t

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
push that new release out to customers until after the new year. And that was

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Jason Cosper
kind of a bone of contention a little bit, where you had people from the

Sé Reed
Oh.

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Right, right.

Jason Cosper
project going, Hey, WP Engine, you know, go ahead and push it out. Like it’s

Sé Reed
I think that’s a really important point. I think that’s a really important point.

Jason Cosper
been getting tested and everything else. But I mean, you have hosts like that

Sé Reed
I think that’s a really important point.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed

Jason Cosper
where people are paying more because they’re earning money from their

Sé Reed
I think that’s a really important point. I think that’s a really important point. I think that’s a really important point.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
websites. And the last thing you want to do while you’re making money is, is

Sé Reed

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Jason Cosper
pull that down. So I think doing the release earlier in the year is good. I think it sucks

Sé Reed

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Sé Reed

Sé Reed
Yeah, I mean, I’m looking,

Sé Reed

Nyasha G
[AUDIO OUT]

Sé Reed

Nyasha G
[AUDIO OUT]

Sé Reed
[inaudible]

Jason Cosper
that the women and non-binary-led release is getting stuffed into the shortest time

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
I think that y’all and your cohort are just getting robbed.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
Okay.

Sé Reed
Yeah, I mean, I’m looking, I think I found the timeline here.

Sé Reed
I think I found the timeline here. The, uh, I did find the timeline.

Sé Reed
I did find the timeline.

Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
So it’s now is now and beta one.

Sé Reed
So it’s now is now and beta one.

Sé Reed
So trunk begins in July, early now.

Sé Reed
So trunk begins in July, which is clearly now and it’s on.

Sé Reed
It’s and it’s long.

Jason Cosper
Mhm.

Sé Reed
Beta one is September 26th and then 6.4 is set to release on November 7th.

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
Beta one is September 26th. And then 6.4 is set to release on November 7th.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Which is interesting, especially because WordCamp US is so early this year.

Sé Reed
Which is interesting,

Jason Cosper
Right?

Sé Reed
especially because WordCamp US is so early this year.

Sé Reed
So also interesting is that WordCamp US ends on that Saturday night, right?

Sé Reed
So also interesting is that WordCamp US

Jason Cosper
Uh huh.

Nyasha G
>> That’s good. I think we’re good. I think we’re good. I’m going to go ahead and get

Sé Reed
ends on that Saturday night, right?

Sé Reed
So it’s like it doesn’t have a Sunday contributor day.

Sé Reed
So it’s like, it doesn’t have a Sunday contributor day.

Jason Cosper
[ Silence ]

Sé Reed
That Sunday contributor day is at the beginning instead of the end,

Sé Reed
That Sunday contributor day is at the beginning instead of the end, which all sorts of thoughts about.

Sé Reed
which all sorts of thoughts about. But Burning Man starts on the 27th.

Sé Reed
But Burning Man starts on the 27th.

Sé Reed
I’m just saying. Not saying why or anything.

Sé Reed
I’m just saying, not saying why or anything.

Sé Reed
I’m just saying that Burning Man starts on August 27th, the day after WordCamp US.

Sé Reed
I’m just saying that Burning Man starts on August 27th, the day after WordCamp US.

Sé Reed
So possibly that’s why there’s no events on Sunday.

Sé Reed
So possibly that’s why there’s no events on Sunday.

Jason Cosper
Sure. [ Silence ]

Sé Reed
So some people like going to Burning Man,

Nyasha G
somebody whose there.

Sé Reed
Some people like going to Burning Man, who have a lot of say.

Sé Reed
who have a lot of say.

Jason Cosper
Some people, right.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Some people, some specific people.

Sé Reed
Some people, some specific people. I have nothing against Burning Man for the record.

Jason Cosper
I, uh, I have nothing against it either.

Sé Reed
I’m not against Burning Man, for the record. I am very much against Burning Man.

Sé Reed
I made friends with the Burning Man.

Sé Reed
[LAUGHTER]

Jason Cosper
I just have a lot in the four column under showers.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
All right, so November,

Jason Cosper
So that’s just me. Um, so let’s, let’s, uh, let’s kind of get into.

Sé Reed
All right, so November, that’s the answer to the question, by the way.

Nyasha G
[ Music ]

Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
that’s the answer to the question, by the way. That’s the timeline.

Sé Reed
That’s the timeline. So it is a shorter timeline.

Jason Cosper
No, let’s look, it is, okay.

Sé Reed
So it is a shorter timeline. It’s a whole month shorter.

Sé Reed
It’s a whole month shorter. Okay, I just want to segue real quick from that before we start getting even closer into

Sé Reed
Okay, I just wanna segue real quick from that before we start getting even closer

Jason Cosper
Okay.

Sé Reed
into our actual wishlist.

Sé Reed
our actual wishlist, that in addition to this shorter timeline for the Women in Non-Binary

Sé Reed
That in addition to this shorter timeline for the women in non-binary release,

Sé Reed
release, there has been a lot of conversation, and there is some conversation in this wishlist

Sé Reed
there has been a lot of conversation

Nyasha G
It’s an honor. [ Pause ]

Sé Reed
and there is some conversation in this wishlist post,

Sé Reed
post, in the comments of this wishlist post, that are saying, “Oh, well, bug fix releases

Sé Reed
in the comments of this wishlist post that are saying, oh, well, you know,

Nyasha G
>> Okay. So, we’re going to go ahead and do that. [ Pause ]

Sé Reed
bug fix releases are really great.

Sé Reed
are really great, so why don’t you just focus on bug fixes?”

Sé Reed
So why don’t you just focus on bug fixes?”

Nyasha G
>> Okay. So, we’re going to go ahead and do that.

Sé Reed
And I’m like, so I agree that bug fix releases

Sé Reed
And I’m like, “So, I agree that bug fix releases are really great.

Jason Cosper
sexist

Nyasha G
Okay. So, we’re going to go ahead and do that. [ Pause ]

Jason Cosper
Yeah

Sé Reed
are really great.

Sé Reed
I’m just thinking, hmm, maybe if we’re doing a specific women and non-binary release in

Sé Reed
I’m just thinking, hmm, maybe if we’re doing a specific

Nyasha G
>> Okay. So, we’re going to go ahead and do that.

Sé Reed
women and non-binary release in order to achieve parity

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
order to achieve parity within some groups of people, this is gender parity I suppose

Sé Reed
within some groups of people, this is gender parity, I suppose that we’re talking about here,

Sé Reed
that we’re talking about here, then perhaps we wouldn’t want to suggest that they should

Sé Reed
And perhaps we wouldn’t want to suggest

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
that they should be limited to doing bug fixes.

Sé Reed
be limited to doing bug fixes. That’s all I’m saying.

Sé Reed
That’s all I’m saying.

Jason Cosper
It’s I mean the the reason i’ll i’ll say it i’ll say it again out loud

Sé Reed
[inaudible]

Sé Reed
Oh, you really are.

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
That’s sexist you’re asking the women and non-binary members of the community To come in and clean up

Sé Reed
Oh, you really are.

Jason Cosper
What the

Sé Reed
That’s literally, that’s literally, I need, I need

Sé Reed
That’s literally, that’s literally. I need everyone who’s listening to this on a podcast

Sé Reed
everyone who’s listening to this on a podcast to go and

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Sé Reed
to go and watch the live stream

Sé Reed
watch the live stream because Nye’s face when we’re talking

Sé Reed
because Nye’s face, when we’re talking about all of this,

Sé Reed
about all of this is literally priceless.

Sé Reed
is literally priceless.

Jason Cosper
Bless their hearts. So actually, I think this does dovetail. If you

Sé Reed
Um, I need you to end it up.

Sé Reed
Yeah, your facial expressions are the best.

Nyasha G
I can’t hide my facial expressions.

Sé Reed
Yeah, your facial expressions are the best.

Nyasha G
I need to.

Sé Reed
You shouldn’t hide them. Be open, please.

Sé Reed
You shouldn’t hide them, be open, please.

Sé Reed
But you’re not saying anything so they can’t hear you,

Sé Reed
But you’re not saying anything so they can’t hear you,

Nyasha G
That’s the best.

Sé Reed
but your face is speaking volumes.

Sé Reed
but your face is speaking volumes. (laughs)

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Nyasha G
That’s all I can do sometimes.

Sé Reed
Oh, I mean, right?

Sé Reed
Oh, I mean, right?

Nyasha G
I mean, I can speak, but. Bless them.

Sé Reed
Like, what? I just, like, blessed their hearts.

Sé Reed
Like what, I just, like, bless their hearts.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Sé Reed
I kind of do, by the way.

Sé Reed
I kind of do, by the way.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
want things to be a little more, uh, aggressive, uh, like kind of, uh,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
have a way, yeah, have, have a, have a way to kind of put, uh, your stamp on,

Sé Reed
I’m kind of all over it.

Sé Reed
I’m kind of all over it.

Sé Reed
I’m like, let’s do a lot of stuff. I’m like, let’s do a lot of stuff.

Sé Reed
I’m like, let’s do a lot of stuff.

Sé Reed
(growls) Okay, yeah, wait.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Jason Cosper
um, on these really on the, this, this 6.4 release, like, are there things

Sé Reed
>> Okay, yeah, wait.

Jason Cosper
that either of you, uh, Nye, is there anything that you would like to, to.

Sé Reed
That’s my first, I’m gonna mute myself.

Sé Reed
That’s my first, I’m gonna mute myself.

Jason Cosper
Yeah. So anything you’d like to see in, um, uh, a new, uh, release, uh, something

Sé Reed
Bye.

Sé Reed
Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
that, that kind of has been, uh, maybe in the background and people are talking

Sé Reed
Sé Reed
[no audio]

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
about that’s, that’s exciting you or anything like that. [ Pause ]

Nyasha G
I saw a really, really, really, really good idea. My — I don’t even know how to describe it. It would just make me happy in my life easier. Is that they really did CSS, like custom CSS on the pages and posts?

Sé Reed
Good God, please, can we just get that CSS panel back?

Sé Reed
Good God, please, can we just get that CSS panel back?

Nyasha G
Like, yeah, I’m like, I need that. I need it so bad.

Sé Reed
That’s all I want.

Sé Reed
That’s all I want.

Jason Cosper
>> Uh-huh.

Sé Reed
I just want the additional CSS panel from the customizer.

Sé Reed
does not the additional CSS panel from the customizer.

Nyasha G
[ Laughter ]

Jason Cosper
[ Silence ]

Nyasha G
Yes.

Sé Reed
Like, I’ve relied on it.

Sé Reed
Like I’ve relied on it and let me tell you,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
And let me tell you, what good is putting in CSS classes

Sé Reed
what good is putting in CSS classes if you have to go in like,

Sé Reed
if you have to go in– like, where is– like, the style sheet is not editable, right?

Sé Reed
where is like the style sheet is not editable, right?

Nyasha G
Yeah.

Sé Reed
Like from the thing.

Sé Reed
Like, from the thing.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
>> Right.

Sé Reed
So like, so if I’m putting in a CSS class,

Sé Reed
So like, so if I’m putting in a CSS class,

Jason Cosper
Please.

Sé Reed
that means I have to go into a backend somewhere

Sé Reed
that means I have to go into a back end somewhere

Sé Reed
and edit the style file.

Sé Reed
and edit the style file.

Nyasha G
Yeah, so what was the point of that?

Sé Reed
What is the point of that?

Jason Cosper
Please.

Nyasha G
Cuz I can go in and just change my code.

Sé Reed
What is the point of that? Exactly. Exactly.

Sé Reed
– Exactly, exactly.

Nyasha G
Bring it back, we want it back.

Sé Reed
I think that’s a great idea and I will championing that with you. I will. There is,

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
Bring it back. (laughing)

Sé Reed
I think that’s a great idea

Nyasha G
Also…

Sé Reed
and I will championing that with you. I will, there is, there has been some CSS conversation.

Sé Reed
there has been some CSS conversation. I don’t know where that landed. There has been, uh, I,

Nyasha G
Yes.

Sé Reed
I don’t know where that landed. There has been, I, so we should also research that

Sé Reed
so we should also research that and talk about it because, um, CSS is so powerful now also, like,

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
and talk about it because CSS is so powerful now also, like, and it is so much lighter weight than JavaScript

Sé Reed
and it is so much lighter weight than JavaScript and you can do so much with it.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Sé Reed
and you can do so much with it.

Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
We should and you know we were talking earlier about like being a millennial or Gen X or whatever

Sé Reed
we should, and, and, you know, we were talking earlier about like being a millennial or Gen X

Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
or whatever, but MySpace really, you know, that was CSS. That was like, that was like, that really

Sé Reed
but MySpace really you know that was CSS that was like that was like that really gives people a power

Sé Reed
gives people a power that is different than an options panel. It just, it opens up literally

Sé Reed
that is different than an options panel. It just it opens up literally the entirety of like

Nyasha G
I agree.

Jason Cosper
Right. Wow. Plant, planting a flag. That’s a, I like it.

Sé Reed
the entirety of like the CSS universe, which is big. And the options panel doesn’t even have

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
the CSS universe which is big and the options panel doesn’t even have freaking padding.

Sé Reed
freaking padding. I want to, and that’s mine, padding. All you care about is margins and all

Sé Reed
I want to… and that’s mine, padding. All you care about is margins and all your margins should be

Nyasha G
(laughs) [silence]

Sé Reed
your margins should be is upper and lower. You don’t even need side margins. I don’t know why

Sé Reed
is upper and lower. You don’t even need side margins. I don’t know why you would think that.

Sé Reed
you would think that. Why would you need side margins? Anyway, I have feelings.

Sé Reed
Why would you need side margins? Anyway, I have feelings.

Sé Reed
No, I’m saying you do need side margins. I just built this contributor page

Nyasha G
(laughing) (laughs)

Sé Reed
No, I’m saying you do need side margins.

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Sé Reed
I just built this contributor page that we’ve been talking about every so often, and I built

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
and we’ve been talking about every so often,

Jason Cosper
Sure. Mm-hmm.

Sé Reed
and I built it on make with like literally just the most basic blocks.

Sé Reed
it on make with literally just the most basic blocks.

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
And I could not make, I could like I could not make,

Sé Reed
And I could not make, like I could not make, put side margin depth onto a column block.

Sé Reed
put like side margin depth onto like a column block. I’m like I’m gonna like murder someone in here.

Sé Reed
I’m like, “I’m going to murder someone in here.”

Nyasha G

Jason Cosper
So did you have to…

Sé Reed
And I can’t, it doesn’t matter if I add a CSS class,

Sé Reed
I can’t, I can’t, it doesn’t matter if I add a CSS class,

Nyasha G
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
I was going to say the workaround, the clearly perfectly logical workaround to this for me would be to add some nested blocks

Sé Reed
because what am I going to do with that?

Sé Reed
’cause what am I gonna do with that?

Sé Reed
Nothing, I’m just going to, I was like,

Sé Reed
Nothing, I’m just gonna, I was like,

Sé Reed
Like, should I just go find some other CSS class

Sé Reed
should I just go find some other CSS class

Sé Reed
that has the right margins

Sé Reed
that has the right margins

Sé Reed
and randomly assign that to this block?

Sé Reed
and randomly assign that to this block? That was my, I’m gonna do that.

Sé Reed
That was my, I’m gonna do that.

Sé Reed
I didn’t do that, but anyway.

Sé Reed
I didn’t do that, but anyway. (indistinct)

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
then have a column on each side. And right that. Yeah, Courtney.

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
Oh my gosh. (laughs)

Sé Reed
How about just some spacers?

Sé Reed
How about just some spacers?

Sé Reed
I could put some spacers inside empty columns

Sé Reed
I could put some spacers inside empty columns

Sé Reed
because it’s talking about MySpace and CSS.

Sé Reed
because it’s talking about MySpace and CSS.

Sé Reed
Like literally, like literally I’m gonna put

Sé Reed
Like literally, like literally, I’m gonna put in my little pixel.

Sé Reed
in my little pixel. Okay, all right, all right, everybody.

Sé Reed
Okay, all right, all right, everybody.

Jason Cosper
Courtney, our friend, Courtney chiming in from what did you say

Sé Reed
All right, okay.

Sé Reed
All right, okay.

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
I think she’s at a water park.

Sé Reed
I think she’s at a water park.

Nyasha G
Oh, lucky.

Jason Cosper
the water park say?

Sé Reed
Yeah, what are you doing at the water park?

Sé Reed
Yeah, what are you doing?

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Jason Cosper
She’s in the Lazy River right now watching the show,

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
(laughs)

Sé Reed
And it’s honestly me that I’m in a classic theme

Sé Reed
(indistinct)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
And it’s punishing me that I’m in a classic theme

Jason Cosper
hanging out with us. And we appreciate that. [ Silence ]

Sé Reed
on the block editor.

Sé Reed
on the block editor.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Look, you know what?

Sé Reed
Look, you know what? A lot of people are trying to use the block editor

Sé Reed
A lot of people are trying to use the block editor in a non-block theme.

Sé Reed
in a non-block theme.

Sé Reed
So I’m just saying, this is not a,

Sé Reed
So I’m just saying, this is not a,

Sé Reed
like, and also like,

Sé Reed
like, and also like, where are the styles in the theme?

Sé Reed
where are the styles in the theme?

Nyasha G
And that’s okay, it’s Friday.

Sé Reed
Are the styles in the core?

Sé Reed
Are the styles in the core?

Sé Reed
Like, I don’t know what we’re doing anymore.

Sé Reed
Like, I don’t know what we’re doing anymore.

Sé Reed
Like we, I think we’ve lost our way a little bit.

Sé Reed
Like we, I think we’ve lost our way a little bit.

Jason Cosper
Yeah, any other things that you’re interested in or excited about now?

Sé Reed
I’m sorry, about CSS specifically.

Sé Reed
I’m sorry. About CSS specifically. Sorry, Nye.

Sé Reed
Sorry, Nye. I took your issue and ran with it there.

Sé Reed
I took your issue and ran with it there.

Sé Reed
And I had strong feelings about CSS recently.

Sé Reed
And I had strong feelings about CSS recently.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
What else do you have?

Sé Reed
What else do you have?

Sé Reed
I’ll put myself on mute again.

Sé Reed
I’ll put myself on mute again. Hold on. Okay, go.

Sé Reed
Hold on. Okay, go.

Sé Reed
[ Silence ]

Sé Reed
Nyasha G
No, that was my pain point because like Se said,

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Nyasha G
there are a lot of people trying to do block in non-block themes like understrap. I at my last company, we owned understrap and I was in the understrap course. So people recognize me and they will stop me on the street.

Sé Reed
I’m going to go ahead and close out the chat.

Nyasha G
They did that at WorkCamp Asia.

Sé Reed
I’m going to close out the chat.

Nyasha G
And they’ll say, hey, when is Undershirt going to update

Sé Reed

Nyasha G
to work with vlogs?

Sé Reed
We should have you on next week too for the block and awesome discussion about that.

Nyasha G
And I’m like, ah.

Sé Reed

Nyasha G
So yeah, that’s my one.

Jason Cosper
You know, oh, yeah, yeah.

Sé Reed

Nyasha G
What about you?

Sé Reed
I’m going to close out the chat. I’m going to close out the chat.

Sé Reed
Are we talking about that next week?

Jason Cosper
Right, right.

Sé Reed
We’re talking about converting on Dev branch, converting classic themes to block themes.

Sé Reed
I’m going to close out the chat. I’m going to close out the chat.

Sé Reed
So it’s like we plan this or something.

Nyasha G
Oh, I know. (laughs)

Sé Reed
It’s amazing. Our strategy just happened.

Sé Reed
It’s amazing. Our strategy is happening.

Jason Cosper
We had to, we had to normally we wing it and like Thursday night

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
It’s true.

Sé Reed
It’s true.

Jason Cosper
Tucker is like, please, I need you to give me a subject for the week so I can generate the intro videos.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
He’s, he’s very polite. He’s much more polite with us than he really ought to be. And, uh, he’s, he’s going to be, uh, AFK for the next two weeks.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
And I said, you know what? I think I can run the show. I know how to push buttons.

Sé Reed
We can plan. We can do it.

Sé Reed
We can plan, we can do it.

Jason Cosper
Yeah, we can, we can plan.

Sé Reed
What?

Sé Reed
[no audio]

Jason Cosper
So yeah, we’re, we’re talking next week, a little teaser. We’re having our pal hosts, we’re bringing them out of the chat and into the

Nyasha G
(slow motion) [BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
episode and, and you know, people really do win on MTV. You know, they, they, they can make it, people really do win on MTV.

Sé Reed
Well, what? [no audio]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
They can, you can make it up to the big time.

Sé Reed
Hey, um, I was on MTV once.

Jason Cosper
Okay.

Sé Reed
Hey, I was on MTV once. [inaudible]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Jason Cosper
Well, we’ll talk about that in the post show.

Sé Reed
No, no, it’s important news.

Sé Reed
No, no, it’s important news.

Jason Cosper
Uh, I, is it up on YouTube?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
I just want everyone to know that and go try to find,

Sé Reed
I just want everyone to know that and go try to find,

Sé Reed
figure out when and how.

Sé Reed
figure out when and how. Okay, bye.

Sé Reed
Okay, bye.

Jason Cosper
Oh, okay.

Sé Reed
I don’t think so.

Sé Reed
I don’t think so.

Sé Reed
It was a long time ago.

Sé Reed
This was a long time ago.

Sé Reed
In the Animaniacs era.

Sé Reed
In the Animaniacs era.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Okay, Cosper, Cosper, tell us your–

Sé Reed
Okay, Cosper, Cosper, tell us your–

Jason Cosper
You’re giving us ways to narrow it down and go through the, the

Sé Reed
[laughs] Tell us your–

Jason Cosper
like internet archive to find out.

Sé Reed
tell us your– tell us what’s on your wish list, Cosper,

Sé Reed
Tell us what’s on your wish list, Cosper,

Jason Cosper
Yeah, you might be right.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Cosper because I know it’s going to be something performance

Sé Reed
because I know it’s gonna be something performance-related.

Sé Reed
related.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
Should I like write it down on a post-it and fold it up and

Jason Cosper
Yeah, well, so it has, it sprung a little bit out of the performance team and the performance

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Should I, like, write it down on a post-it and fold it up and then, like, see if I could guess?

Sé Reed
then like see if I could guess? No, anyway.

Sé Reed
No, anyway. [silence]

Sé Reed
Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
lab plugin, and we’ll pull it up. But I am only sharing this tab.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
There we go. Tucker makes this look so easy. So we have Ari talking about the SQLite project.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
This is if you’ve,

Sé Reed
Is that real quick?

Sé Reed
Dun dun dun.

Jason Cosper
if you played around with the WordPress playground,

Sé Reed
Is that real quick is that that’s what all of like it’s the insta WP spin up WP right? That’s all the same thing. Yeah

Jason Cosper
which actually allows you to run a copy of WordPress

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
in your browser, you are kind of benefiting from the SQLite project.

Sé Reed
Is that that’s what all of like it’s the insta WP spin up WP, right?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
That’s all the same thing.

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Yeah.

Jason Cosper
Okay. Well, no, spin up WP is like a managed host.

Sé Reed
[Multiple speakers]

Jason Cosper
Insta WP does do my SQL. They just provision it very quickly.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
What SQ light does specifically is it takes away like a my SQL database

Sé Reed
[silence]

Jason Cosper
dependency.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
So you could effectively just host your site on something that can run PHP.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(mouse clicking)

Jason Cosper
you don’t need to worry about spinning up a database and putting the database

Sé Reed
Wait, I know this isn’t, you know, Dev branch.

Jason Cosper
information in and I know with like managed hosts

Sé Reed
– Wait, I know this isn’t, you know, Dev branch.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
it’s a flat file, SQLite effectively like a flat file database for kind of small

Sé Reed
We’re not supposed to get like wild geeky,

Sé Reed
We’re not supposed to get like wild geeky,

Sé Reed
but where does the data come from

Sé Reed
but where does the data come from

Sé Reed
if you don’t have a database?

Sé Reed
if you don’t have a database?

Sé Reed
That’s so interesting.

Sé Reed
That’s so interesting.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Is it like minified CSS?

Jason Cosper
for kind of small sites, it performs very quickly. But when you take

Sé Reed
Is it like minified CSS?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
no,

Sé Reed
Hmm.

Sé Reed
Hmm.

Jason Cosper
I mean, it’s just basically a different way of running a database where the

Sé Reed
Oh, but you add dynamic data to a flat file.

Sé Reed
Oh, but you add dynamic data to a flat file.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
databases is all coming from. Correct. Yeah.

Sé Reed
That’s a thing.

Sé Reed
That’s the thing. Oh, we’re going to have to do a show, a dev branch on this so I can ask geeky questions.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Oh, we’re going to have to do a show, a dev branch on this so I can ask geeky questions without focusing on it too–

Sé Reed
Without without thing on it too deep diving on it too much today because I have lots of

Jason Cosper
Yeah. Right. But I am, I am very excited about this because WordPress can,

Sé Reed
deep diving on it too much today.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Because I do have questions. Lots of questions.

Sé Reed
(audio cuts out)

Sé Reed
[silence]

Sé Reed
What would be an example of that?

Jason Cosper
something that I always advocate for, we can start to get a little weird with WordPress.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
We can take WordPress and say, host it on a very lightweight, something that just runs

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
PHP instead of having your own PHP and a MySQL server, whatever else just

Sé Reed
What would be an example of that?

Jason Cosper
effectively take a Raspberry Pi device, something there are a lot of places out

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
like a Raspberry Pi device or something?

Sé Reed
Like a Raspberry Pi device or something?

Sé Reed
Your phone?

Sé Reed
With your phone? [ Pause ]

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
there like that sort of compute at the edge, like fly.io and Heroku has been

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
used for stuff like this, but effectively a way to run PHP, like on these little, like kind of more

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[ Applause ]

Jason Cosper
localized containers. So it lets people like run WordPress with like lower resource usage. So even

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[Music]

Jason Cosper
say somebody in, you know, India, or, you know, their basement in Des Moines wants to run their

Sé Reed
– I’m going to start with the first one.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
– Okay. – So, I’m going to start with the first one. – Okay. – So, I’m going to start with the first one.

Jason Cosper
WordPress site, they want to fully self host it where it’s

Sé Reed
– Okay.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
– So, I’m going to start with the first one.

Jason Cosper
running on a Raspberry Pi or an old Android phone, like on their

Sé Reed
– Okay. – So, I’m going to start with the first one.

Jason Cosper
desktop, like, they can do that. Like, we have that thing that we

Sé Reed

Sé Reed
[AUDIO OUT]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
were talking about the other day, what was that a that notes

Sé Reed

Jason Cosper
app that is effectively just the block editor, the WordPress

Sé Reed
Right. That was what one of the automaticians, I can’t remember her name at the moment.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
playground inside of like an iOS app. Like, um, it’s just kind of,

Sé Reed
Right.

Jason Cosper
yeah.

Sé Reed
That was what one of the automaticians– I can’t remember her name at the moment–

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
So it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s very, it’s, it, it just is going to kind of up

Sé Reed
T. It’ll be in the show notes. Do you think this will be in some form in 6.4?

Sé Reed
Do you think this will be in some form in 6.4?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
end the idea of WordPress needing, uh, it, it already didn’t need a complex stack, but it’s like stripping that stuff away even further.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
That is just so exciting to me. And I maybe possibly, hopefully, potentially yes, absolutely.

Sé Reed
Are you going to write it up on the wish list?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Are you gonna write it up on the wishlist?

Sé Reed
Because otherwise it’s not going to.

Sé Reed
‘Cause otherwise it’s not gonna.

Jason Cosper
And the proposal, the proposal that Ari made in the make WordPress core

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Could it run simultaneously?

Jason Cosper
blog, like it has a pretty fair amount of, of like, Hey, let’s

Sé Reed
It could it run simultaneously, it can be there with also the regular one?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
quit making this a feature plugin. Let’s include it in WordPress core. Yeah, absolutely.

Sé Reed
Like it can be there with also the regular one?

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Right, so that in theory you could add it in so that it’s an option and it doesn’t have to,

Sé Reed
– Right, so that in theory you could add it in so that it’s an option and it doesn’t have to,

Sé Reed
It doesn’t upset anything.

Sé Reed
it doesn’t upset anything, it just adds functionality.

Sé Reed
It just adds functionality.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
you can, yeah. And one of the ways that it’s being proposed is if, um,

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(Pause.)

Jason Cosper
it doesn’t detect, uh, like a, my SQL server running at all,

Sé Reed
Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
or there’s no, um, you know, prompt, like it could have essentially like, WordPress could just default to using, uh, SQ light, uh,

Sé Reed
>> Effectively to DevBranch, sorry.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
>> Effectively to DevBranch, sorry.

Jason Cosper
and just kind of run it’s you’re right. We’re getting way too Dev branch on this. So I’m going to dive into my.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Yeah, we’ll, we’ll wait until we get to Deb branch on that.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
And when I wrote down,

Sé Reed
And when I wrote down,

Jason Cosper
But speaking of the other one that I’m really excited about is something that

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Courtney is always just on the,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
on the side in the WordPress Slack. Yeah.

Sé Reed
(computer beeps)

Sé Reed
(mouse clicking)

Jason Cosper
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you, you already know where I’m going. Postformats.

Sé Reed
Boom!

Sé Reed
Boom.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
I, yeah, when I’m, when I’m not young release candidate or fat Mullenweg, I’m

Sé Reed
Call it.

Sé Reed
Called it.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[ Laughter ]

Sé Reed
[ Laughter ]

Jason Cosper
postformats Malone. And I, I really think that postformats is like a missed

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
opportunity. So this proposal to bring post formats into block themes to, to bring that to a place where we can start to use

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
post formats. It sure, sure, it could, I guess it could be

Sé Reed
Isn’t it block formats at this point, though?

Sé Reed
Isn’t it block formats at this point, though?

Sé Reed
I guess it’s like a block format per, like, if you select a type of post, then the block

Sé Reed
I guess it’s like a block format per, like, if you select a type of post, then the block

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
considered Yeah. Yeah.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
would have a different structure.

Sé Reed
would have a different structure.

Sé Reed
Yeah?

Sé Reed
Yeah?

Sé Reed
Essentially.

Sé Reed
Essentially.

Sé Reed
I mean, I haven’t specifically read this request.

Sé Reed
I mean, I haven’t specifically read this request.

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
I mean the, um, the proposed solution and I think, uh, you know, some

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
people have, have weighed in, uh, both Tucker and myself, the second I, uh,

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Jason Cosper
did our little group chat about this last night. Like, Tucker’s

Sé Reed
Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
like, Hey, are you going to comment on that? Like, because I

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
already commented on it. Like, and yeah, I mean, I am just,

Sé Reed
[MUSIC PLAYING]

Sé Reed
[ Music ]

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
this is one of those things. Now that they have been pushing to

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
move Tumblr, which is that was the inspiration for post formats over to a WordPress stack, I don’t see why, including post format, so you can have special post formats for like, quote

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
posts for, you know, just like link blogs, like there was some,

Sé Reed
[ Silence ]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
there still is some janky plugin that hasn’t received an update

Sé Reed
Link roll, blog roll. They’re in fireball. I’m going to go ahead and do a little bit.

Jason Cosper
in like 10, 12 years.

Sé Reed
>> Link roll, dog roll.

Jason Cosper
It’s like a daring fireball style link list plugin

Sé Reed
[ Laughter ]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
or something like that is what it’s called based on.

Sé Reed
>> Bear and carnival. [BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Daring fireball, it’s like Apple related blog

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
that he does a lot of posts that are just like links to other comment with like a little sentence

Sé Reed
Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
or four of commentary on like the link that he’s linking to. I, I used to run a link blog back in the day and, uh, I,

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
[silence]

Jason Cosper
I really enjoyed doing that. It was, um,

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
kind of the way that I use, uh, or used, uh,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Twitter and now mastodon, like I find something I think is cool. Uh, you know, I’ve got it in me to link to it and write a couple sentences about it and just

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
move on with my day. I used to be a lot more active on my blog when I could do that. And I could hack that back in. I could do post formats and everything else. But having something that’s like a native block implementation, please,

Sé Reed
Okay, so we got to make that happen, but also there’s one in this that I really think needs

Sé Reed
Okay, so we got to make that happen, but also there’s one in this that I really think needs

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
please give it to me. (laughs)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Ooh, yes please.

Sé Reed
to happen.

Sé Reed
to happen.

Sé Reed
And I think one of the release leads, or I don’t know what they’re called, I don’t know,

Sé Reed
And I think one of the release leads, or I don’t know what they’re called, I don’t know,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
one of the leads is a big proponent of it.

Sé Reed
one of the leads is a big proponent of it.

Sé Reed
is being able to unselect categories when you bulk edit.

Sé Reed
is being able to unselect categories when you bulk edit.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Ooh.

Sé Reed
Ooh. (laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
It just sounds like the most mundane thing in the world,

Sé Reed
It just sounds like the most mundane thing in the world,

Jason Cosper
(silence) Yeah.

Sé Reed
but good golly, how much do we all wanna do that?

Sé Reed
but good golly, how much do we all wanna do that?

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
All right, there’s two more things I wanna mention,

Sé Reed
All right, there’s two more things I wanna mention,

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
and we’re in overtime, even though we’re just rambling.

Sé Reed
and we’re in overtime, even though we’re just rambling.

Sé Reed
So two things.

Sé Reed
So two things.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
One, there’s a suite of plugins by Andy Fragen,

Sé Reed
One, there’s a suite of plugins by Andy Fragen,

Sé Reed
friend of the show and trauma surgeon, ER surgeon,

Sé Reed
friend of the show and trauma surgeon, ER surgeon, Andy

Sé Reed
Andy Fragen, who has been working on

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Fragen, who has been working on plugin dependency notifications

Sé Reed
plugin dependency notifications for the,

Jason Cosper
[silence]

Sé Reed
for the both in the dashboard for people to be able to see

Sé Reed
both in the dashboard for people to be able to see

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
plugin dependencies in their dashboard. And then also like,

Sé Reed
plugin dependencies in their dashboard.

Jason Cosper
Mm hmm.

Sé Reed
And then also like, oh, you need this plugin for this.

Jason Cosper
So if there if there are failed

Sé Reed
oh, you need this plugin for this. And then also one that

Sé Reed
And then also one that sends failure and, I guess,

Sé Reed
sends failure and I guess, I don’t know what the word is,

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
I don’t know what the word is.

Sé Reed
basically failure data from the plugins and from sites

Sé Reed
Basically, fail your data from the plugins and from sites back to the repo or back to WordPress for use and analysis.

Sé Reed
back to the repo or back to like WordPress

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
for use in analysis.

Sé Reed
Yes.

Sé Reed
Yes.

Jason Cosper
updates that that telemetry will

Sé Reed
Yes.

Sé Reed
Yes.

Jason Cosper
effectively make it, yeah.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Provide plugin and theme update failure data to .org.

Sé Reed
Provide plugin and theme update failure data to .org.

Jason Cosper
Right. I, yeah, I do know something that’s coming out in 6.3, Andy has a plugin that, well,

Sé Reed
There we go.

Sé Reed
There we go.

Sé Reed
So we know when that’s happening.

Sé Reed
So we know when that’s happening.

Sé Reed
Sé Reed
[ Music ]

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
something that’s getting rolled into 6.3, which is rollbacks for like plugin and theme

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
updates. So it effectively takes the plugins that you’re updating,

Nyasha G
[Silence]

Jason Cosper
moves them to like a backup folder.

Sé Reed
(audio distorts)

Sé Reed
(audio distorts)

Sé Reed
Right.

Sé Reed
Right.

Jason Cosper
And if the plug or theme update doesn’t succeed, it just drops the old version of the plugin in place and says, “Hey, there was a problem.” Instead of basically like bricking your site, giving you a white screen, something like that.

Sé Reed
I was like, yes, please.

Sé Reed
I was like, yes, please.

Jason Cosper
This is amazing, but it’s right now,

Nyasha G
Yes, can you hear?

Jason Cosper
coming in six three is only yeah, this is, this is only for like manual updates that

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
So the core is the auto update rollback.

Sé Reed
[AUDIO OUT]

Jason Cosper
you yourself perform through the dashboard, the end goal. And I think that where they’re, they’re pushing with this is to have this on like automatic updates.

Sé Reed
So the core is the auto-update rollback.

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
So it’s phase three.

Sé Reed
So it’s phase three, and I linked to it

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
And I linked to it so you can see it in show notes,

Sé Reed
so you can see it in show notes, the track.

Sé Reed
the track. But phase three of the rollback thing

Sé Reed
But phase three of the rollback thing

Sé Reed
is to rollback auto-updates as well.

Sé Reed
is to rollback auto updates as well.

Sé Reed
So I mean, I think this makes it just like, yes.

Sé Reed
So I mean, I think this makes it just like, yes.

Nyasha G
Wonderful. Wonderful.

Sé Reed
Yeah, we didn’t, we were right there.

Sé Reed
Yeah, we didn’t, we were right there.

Nyasha G
Bless. That’s a bless. That’s not a bless their hearts. That’s a bless. Yeah.

Jason Cosper
Yep.

Sé Reed
Bless that’s a, everyone’s blessing Andy go.

Sé Reed
Bless that’s a, everyone’s blessing Andy go.

Nyasha G
That’s a bless one. [BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Yeah, I think that that type of stuff

Sé Reed
Yeah, I think that that type of stuff

Jason Cosper
Yep.

Sé Reed
that’s been happening has been slow to happen.

Sé Reed
that’s been happening has been slow to happen.

Sé Reed
But when those happen, it makes it so that it really is

Sé Reed
But when those happen, it makes it so that it really is

Nyasha G
[silence]

Sé Reed
auto updates, you know what I mean?

Sé Reed
auto updates, you know what I mean?

Sé Reed
really is you can you can put that on safely. You can like update your stuff safely. You

Sé Reed
really is you can you can put that on safely. You can like update your stuff

Nyasha G
[INAUDIBLE]

Sé Reed
safely. You don’t have to like panic and that makes it really able for the user

Sé Reed
don’t have to like panic and that makes it really able for the user to do their own stuff.

Jason Cosper
Yep.

Nyasha G
Okay.

Jason Cosper
Yep.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
to do their own stuff. Because even now it’s dangerous for the users to update

Sé Reed
Because even now it’s dangerous for the users to update their own things if they don’t have

Sé Reed
their own things if they don’t have other access to get to something if it

Nyasha G
Open your eyes.

Jason Cosper
Yeah. Yeah.

Sé Reed
other access to get to something if it breaks. And this yeah really like just giving that

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Nyasha G
[silence]

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
breaks. And this yeah really like just giving that giving that ability to have

Jason Cosper
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nyasha G
Open.

Jason Cosper
I mean, Matt has said something.

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
He’s been talking about this for a while. He’s been talking about this for a while. He’s been talking about this for a while.

Sé Reed
giving that ability to have that an auto update and then the ability for it to auto tell you fix it

Jason Cosper

Sé Reed
that an auto update and then the ability for it to auto fix it, which is possible since a lot of

Jason Cosper
He’s been talking about this for a while. He’s been talking about this for a while. He’s been talking about this for a while. He’s been talking about this for a while.

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Jason Cosper
He’s been talking about this for a while.

Sé Reed
which is possible since a lot of the managed hosts do it if not all of the managed hosts

Jason Cosper

Sé Reed
the managed hosts do it, if not all of the managed hosts. But I just think that’s gonna

Jason Cosper

Sé Reed
but I just think that’s gonna make everything so much better on the user end.

Jason Cosper

Nyasha G
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Jason Cosper
Yeah, I mean, Matt has said something. He said something that I thought was really interesting

Sé Reed
make everything so much better on the user end.

Nyasha G
[Pause]

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
when he proposed it, but that effectively what he’s pushing towards is he wants to make

Sé Reed
[silence]

Jason Cosper
WordPress more like Chrome and not necessarily, I’m sure in the like the world domination, like everyone runs WordPress thing, but also, and what he was saying was that you may be in the future,

Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Sé Reed
Right.

Jason Cosper
don’t even know what version of WordPress you’re running because you are on the latest version

Sé Reed
>> Right.

Sé Reed
Right.

Jason Cosper
because or plugins or whatever,

Sé Reed
(beep)

Sé Reed
Nyasha G
[ Silence ]

Sé Reed
[ Pause ]

Jason Cosper
because we have this auto updater that runs in the background. If there’s a failure, it catches it and doesn’t update that thing.

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
I think we’re getting to that future. it would be wild if in, you know, five years from now, you know, we’re just talking about the 25th birthday. Uh, and we’re like, Oh man, like, you know, now like we’re on WordPress,

Nyasha G
[ Pause ]

Jason Cosper
whatever seven point something or other, but like only the like hardcore people,

Sé Reed
[silence]

Jason Cosper
like the three of us know what the version number is. And I actually probably only the hardcore people like us are still only know

Sé Reed
[laughing]

Sé Reed
[laughter]

Jason Cosper
what the version number is.

Sé Reed
Yeah, I was like, how’s that different?

Sé Reed
Yeah, I was like, how’s that different?

Jason Cosper
Right.

Nyasha G
LANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Okay, there’s one more I have to talk, well, there’s two more

Sé Reed
Okay, there’s one more I have to talk,

Jason Cosper
Please, please, please.

Sé Reed
well, there’s two more before we end.

Sé Reed
before we end, we gotta get through this ’cause we’re

Jason Cosper
No.

Sé Reed
We gotta get through this ’cause we’re already in overtime.

Sé Reed
already in overtime.

Sé Reed
Okay, one I’m just gonna hit and run and then we’ll move

Sé Reed
Okay, one I’m just gonna hit and run and then we’ll move to the next one but icons block and icons and buttons.

Sé Reed
to the next one but icons block and icons and buttons.

Nyasha G
[LAUGH] LANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
[clapping]

Sé Reed
[clapping]

Nyasha G
>> Yes.

Sé Reed
Seems not too complicated.

Sé Reed
Seems not too complicated.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
I don’t know. I also I want to kind of look into what’s going on with the whole Dashacon thing because like

Sé Reed
I don’t know, I also, I wanna kind of look into what’s going

Jason Cosper
I’ll put three. No, no.

Sé Reed
on with the whole dashacon thing because like,

Sé Reed
shouldn’t we just be using font awesome or is there like some sort of open source icon thing that we should be dealing with because

Sé Reed
shouldn’t we just be using font awesome or is there like some sort of open source icon

Nyasha G
Yeah, and that’s like, yeah, I’m with you, sorry, I know we gotta go, but

Sé Reed
thing that we should be dealing with because I feel like our icon game is really like

Sé Reed
I feel like our icon game is really like

Sé Reed
no no no no we don’t have to go

Sé Reed
No, no, no, we don’t have to go

Nyasha G
I’m just with you, I’m gonna say. It’s not really clear either, I’m getting into custom block building because I hate

Jason Cosper
(chuckles)

Sé Reed
– No, talk about it.

Sé Reed
No, talk about it. (laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Nyasha G
life. I’m just kidding. I love it. Um, and it’s like, it’s so like, first of all, the,

Sé Reed
Dang it, come on.

Sé Reed
Say it, come on.

Jason Cosper
[ Silence ]

Nyasha G
I don’t want to say that. Never mind. It’s just not clear and we need like better options and they just, we need better options. That’s what I’m going to say. They suck. They suck.

Jason Cosper
Please, Nye.

Sé Reed
That’s what we’re here for.

Sé Reed
That’s what we’re here for.

Jason Cosper
Share — yeah.

Sé Reed
They suck.

Sé Reed
They suck. The icons, there really are no icons.

Sé Reed
The icons, there really are no icons.

Jason Cosper
[Pause]

Sé Reed
Like dashacons are like, have been dead for a long time.

Sé Reed
like dashacons have been dead for a long time.

Nyasha G
Yeah, it’s so archaic looking.

Sé Reed
I don’t understand why I’m still using dashacons,

Sé Reed
Like, I don’t understand why I’m still using dashacons.

Jason Cosper
Mm-hmm. [Pause]

Nyasha G
Yeah.

Sé Reed
like I have to use dashacons.

Sé Reed
Like I have to use dashacons.

Sé Reed
When you go to the repo for dashacons,

Sé Reed
When you go to the repo for dashacons,

Sé Reed
it’s like, this has been sunsetted for like years.

Sé Reed
it’s like, this has been sunsetted for like years.

Sé Reed
But I’m like, okay, great,

Sé Reed
Then I’m like, okay, great. But we’re not using something else then?

Sé Reed
but we’re not using something else then?

Nyasha G
Yeah.

Sé Reed
I’m a little confused on that.

Sé Reed
I’m a little confused on that.

Nyasha G
Okay.

Sé Reed
So maybe we’ll at least, you know,

Sé Reed
So maybe we’ll at least, you know, taking inspiration from Andy Friggin’s

Sé Reed
taking inspiration from Andy Friggin’s multiple rollback phases.

Sé Reed
multiple rollback phases,

Jason Cosper
At work, at work, I always end up talking about kind of a table setting.

Sé Reed
Maybe, you know, I don’t know how easy it would be

Sé Reed
Maybe, you know, I don’t know how easy it would be

Sé Reed
to like fix the icon or the dash icons problem,

Sé Reed
to like fix the icon or the dash icons problem,

Sé Reed
but maybe that’s something we could start

Sé Reed
but maybe that’s something we could start

Sé Reed
laying some foundation for,

Sé Reed
laying some foundation for,

Sé Reed
for it to shift over to something that is, you know,

Sé Reed
for it to shift over to something that is, you know,

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
at least do some of the backend research

Sé Reed
at least do some of the backend research

Sé Reed
to see if we can move it forward a little bit.

Sé Reed
to see if we can move it forward a little bit.

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Nyasha G
[ Pause ]

Jason Cosper
So like, you know, instead of shipping this, you know, project, and like, you know, here is this

Sé Reed
It’s like this right here.

Sé Reed
It’s like this right here.

Jason Cosper
big thing. It’s like, okay, let’s, let’s set the table for this. Let’s, let’s put out like, what a lot of people refer to as like a minimum viable product. And then you just keep progressively enhancing it. But what you’re doing, Yeah.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
It says iteration.

Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
It says iteration.

Sé Reed
You can’t see it, but it says iteration over perfection.

Sé Reed
You can’t see it, but it says iteration over perfection.

Sé Reed
the slide from one of the first WordPress talks I ever watched.

Sé Reed
the slide from one of the first WordPress talks I ever watched.

Sé Reed
But we do not embrace this nearly enough.

Sé Reed
But we do not embrace this nearly enough.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
It’s like we have to be done with stuff and push it out instead of the idea of, you know,

Sé Reed
It’s like we have to be done with stuff and push it out instead of the idea of, you know,

Jason Cosper
It’s it.

Sé Reed
which Andy’s rollbacks is doing, you know what I mean?

Sé Reed
which Andy’s rollbacks is doing, you know what I mean?

Jason Cosper
My background is blurred out.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
But I think people lose patience in that and they’re just like, “Oh, it’s now or never.”

Sé Reed
But I think people lose patience in that and they’re just like, “Oh, it’s now or never.”

Sé Reed
I need to put that on my wall, actually.

Sé Reed
I need to put that on my wall, actually.

Jason Cosper
I’ve talked about it before, but I have this one over my shoulder here next to

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
strong bad that says, shitty and done is better than perfect. And three months late I would rather ship. I would rather ship something that doesn’t quite live up to expectations right out

Sé Reed
I need that one, too.

Sé Reed
I need that one, too.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
[inaudible]

Sé Reed
[inaudible]

Jason Cosper
of the gate and progressively enhance it. I mean, basically you’re trying to serve a meal.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
You know, what do you do before you serve a meal? You set the table, like set the table, put the plates down, put all the dishes in place.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
So then when the meal is ready, y’all can eat.

Sé Reed
Yeah, or if you want to extend it back even further to the cooking,

Sé Reed
Yeah, or if you want to extend it back even further to the cooking,

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Sé Reed
It’s mise en place, right?

Sé Reed
It’s mise en place, right?

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
Like, you get all your ingredients together and you get

Sé Reed
Like, you get all your ingredients together and you get

Jason Cosper
Yes, chef.

Sé Reed
your little–I always thought it was so great,

Sé Reed
your little–I always thought it was so great,

Jason Cosper
Mm-hmm.

Sé Reed
wherever you get your little bowl of spice over here and you

Sé Reed
wherever you get your little bowl of spice over here and you

Sé Reed
get your thing and, like, it’s ready and then you assemble,

Sé Reed
get your thing and, like, it’s ready and then you assemble,

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
but you have all your–you have all your components ready and

Sé Reed
but you have all your–you have all your components ready and

Sé Reed
they’re solid and ready to go and you know if you’re out of,

Sé Reed
they’re solid and ready to go and you know if you’re out of,

Sé Reed
you know, such and such.

Sé Reed
you know, such and such.

Sé Reed
You can figure out a substitute before you’re halfway in.

Sé Reed
You can figure out a substitute before you’re halfway in.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
So

Sé Reed
I feel like we do the–we just start cooking.

Sé Reed
I feel like we do the–we just start cooking.

Jason Cosper
Right

Sé Reed
That’s what I feel like WordPress is,

Sé Reed
That’s what I feel like WordPress is,

Sé Reed
It’s just like, oh, we’re gonna make a thing, let’s just start

Sé Reed
It’s just like, oh, we’re gonna make a thing, let’s just start

Nyasha G
[PAUSE]

Sé Reed
cooking and tossing all the ingredients into there,

Sé Reed
cooking and tossing all the ingredients into there,

Sé Reed
and then we get halfway through it and we’re like,

Sé Reed
and then we get halfway through it and we’re like,

Sé Reed
hmm, oh, we don’t have this, do we need to go to the store?

Sé Reed
hmm, oh, we don’t have this, do we need to go to the store?

Sé Reed
I don’t know, we’ll just put it on pause for the next two years.

Sé Reed
I don’t know, we’ll just put it on pause for the next two years.

Sé Reed
That’s what, looks like kind of how I feel it happens.

Sé Reed
That’s what, looks like kind of how I feel it happens.

Jason Cosper
It it sort of it sort of makes me think of uh, someone made me aware of

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
(laughing)

Sé Reed
Ms. Jenny Hamillurat?

Sé Reed
t’s all 100%

Jason Cosper
I don’t really look at Reddit anymore, but someone made me aware of a subreddit called something like “I didn’t have eggs” or something like that, where it basically shows the wild ass things

Nyasha G
[ Laughter ]

Sé Reed
Ms. Jane Chenoweth?

Jason Cosper
that people end up putting into their food because they’re like, “Oh, I didn’t have this ingredient, so I just went ahead and used this.” That’s what sometimes the development process can

Sé Reed
[laughter]

Jason Cosper
feel like.

Sé Reed
That’s 100%.

Sé Reed
That’s 100%.

Nyasha G
I love that.

Jason Cosper
[Pause for group work]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughter]

Sé Reed
I didn’t have eggs.

Sé Reed
I didn’t have eggs.

Sé Reed
If Twitter still existed, that would be my new favorite hashtag

Sé Reed
If Twitter still existed, that would be my new favorite hashtag for like all these.

Nyasha G
Oh, I’m so sad.

Sé Reed
for like all these. This is an “I didn’t have eggs” moment

Sé Reed
This is an I didn’t have eggs moment

Sé Reed
right here is what this is.

Sé Reed
right here is what this is.

Nyasha G
[ Laughter ]

Sé Reed
That, you know, we’ve got a blessed task.

Sé Reed
That, you know, we’ve got a blessed task.

Sé Reed
We should have “doesn’t have eggs.”

Sé Reed
We should have doesn’t have eggs.

Sé Reed
No eggs for this. That should be one of the labels.

Sé Reed
No eggs for this. That should be one of the labels.

Sé Reed
Needs eggs. [laughs]

Sé Reed
Needs eggs. Okay, I have one last one that I would be absolutely remiss to not mention for a multitude

Jason Cosper
Yeah.

Nyasha G
(laughs)

Sé Reed
Okay. I have one last one

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Nyasha G
[ Music ]

Sé Reed
that I would be absolutely remiss to not mention for a multitude of reasons,

Sé Reed
of reasons, not the least of which is because friend of the show, Scott Kingsley Clark has

Sé Reed
not the least of which is because friend of the show,

Jason Cosper
>> Right. I’m going to go back to the slides. I’m going to go back to the slides. I’m going

Sé Reed
Scott Kingsley Clark has been on this for a long time.

Sé Reed
been on this for a long time. But also, I’m a custom fields head.

Sé Reed
But also I’m a custom fields head. Like I am, I live and breathe custom fields.

Sé Reed
Like I am, I live and breathe custom fields.

Nyasha G
[ Inaudible ]

Sé Reed
I don’t know how anyone builds a website without them.

Sé Reed
I don’t know how anyone builds a website without them.

Sé Reed
I don’t know.

Sé Reed
I don’t know, like I used to use them back

Sé Reed
Like I used to use them back when they, you had to make them yourself.

Sé Reed
when you had to make them yourself,

Sé Reed
Like back in the day and you like, you have things and you’re calling them,

Sé Reed
like back in the day and you like, make your own things and you’re calling them whatever,

Sé Reed
whatever. But like, you know, now I’m like pods got ACF.

Sé Reed
but like, you know, now I’m like pods, you got ACF,

Jason Cosper
to go back to the slides, yes.

Sé Reed
Like I am custom fields reliant.

Sé Reed
like I am custom fields reliant.

Sé Reed
And so thus I say custom fields, API,

Sé Reed
And so thus I say, custom fields API.

Jason Cosper
Please. Please.

Sé Reed
what, please.

Sé Reed
What?

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
Right.

Sé Reed
Please, good Lord, I shouldn’t need so many third parties

Jason Cosper
Right. I see.

Sé Reed
Good Lord, I shouldn’t need so many third parties to connect a database to a database.

Sé Reed
to connect a database to a database.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
I should just, should not.

Sé Reed
I should just should know.

Sé Reed
There should be no reason that I cannot connect,

Sé Reed
There should be no reason that I cannot connect,

Sé Reed
like even just through Zapier

Sé Reed
like even just through Zapier

Sé Reed
without like three different like webhook things.

Sé Reed
without like three different like webhook things.

Nyasha G
[no audio]

Sé Reed
Like, what are we talking about here?

Sé Reed
Like what are we talking about here?

Sé Reed
This is, we need a direct API for custom fields.

Sé Reed
This is, we need a direct API for custom fields.

Sé Reed

Sé Reed

Sé Reed
It needs to be done.

Sé Reed
It needs to be done.

Sé Reed
[Silence]

Sé Reed
(video playing)

Jason Cosper
I see you nodding in agreement there, Nadi.

Sé Reed
[Silence]

Jason Cosper
Do you have a feeling about this? Do you– I mean, you’re kind of– as you’re building sites and everything, I’m sure that you’ve got to use custom fields.

Nyasha G
Yeah, I use it like every day.

Jason Cosper
[Pause]

Nyasha G
I put on Twitter like a couple of months ago, I’m naming my first born child. No, it was before WP Engine got them. I was like, I’m naming my first born child Cooper. That’s a long story, why their first name is Cooper.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Nyasha G
And that’s gender neutral, so it will be girl Cooper too.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Jason Cosper
Uh-huh.

Nyasha G
ACF Green.

Jason Cosper
Right.

Nyasha G
So, yeah.

Sé Reed
Cooper, ACF Green, I am right there with you.

Sé Reed
Cooper, ACF Green, I am right there with you.

Nyasha G
So people are already calling my future unborn child,

Sé Reed
I am here with you.

Sé Reed
I am here with you.

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Sé Reed
[laughs]

Nyasha G
ACF Green. So yes, I agree with Sayy. I don’t see how people aren’t using it either.

Sé Reed
How do you build a website without it is what I want to know.

Sé Reed
How do you build a website without it is what I want to know.

Nyasha G
I don’t know, I did an interview there, like what’s your favorite plugin? I was like ACF, like what else is there? What else do I need? Yeah, like. (laughs)

Sé Reed
And especially now that it has post types, I’m just like, I switched so fast.

Sé Reed
And especially now that it has post types, I’m just like, I switched so fast.

Jason Cosper
You’re getting over a cold.

Sé Reed
Excuse me, I just cackled and made myself cough.

Sé Reed
Excuse me, I just cackled and made myself cough.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
I am, but I still did cackle about that because I switched off of my other,

Jason Cosper
It should be noted.

Nyasha G
Okay.

Jason Cosper
So–

Sé Reed
I am, but I still did cackle about that because I switched off of my other, off of my other

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
off of my other post types plugins really quickly.

Sé Reed
post types plugins really quickly and the the um Albuquerque, that’s a good name,

Sé Reed
And the, Albuquerque, that’s a good name.

Jason Cosper
I mean and if you’re in a state where you’re not allowed to do that and you’re not allowed to do that, but you do that, and you’re not allowed to do that.

Sé Reed
the the the the I think we talked about this briefly but the conversion process from ACF

Sé Reed
I think we talked about this briefly,

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
but the conversion process from ACF post types,

Jason Cosper
But you’re not allowed to do that. But you’re not allowed to do that.

Sé Reed
post types there are two ACF post types was like flawless and easy and simple and I clicked the

Jason Cosper
So, I mean, that’s the thing.

Sé Reed
there are two ACF post types was like flawless

Jason Cosper
I mean, there’s a lot of people that say, well, you’re not allowed to do that.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
and easy and simple.

Jason Cosper
But I mean, I’m not allowed to do that.

Sé Reed
And I clicked the button and I was done.

Sé Reed
button and I was done and I was like I am never looking back even if it is owned by WP Engine I

Jason Cosper
But I’m not allowed to do that.

Sé Reed
And I was like, I am never looking back.

Jason Cosper
And I’m not allowed to do that. I’m not allowed to do that.

Sé Reed
Even if it is owned by WP Engine, I don’t care.

Jason Cosper
I mean, and if, if, if the fields API or when it eventually does like shit, I’m

Sé Reed
I don’t care. Give me my custom post types.

Sé Reed
Give me my custom post types.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
Give me my custom fields.

Sé Reed
Give me my custom fields. (laughs)

Sé Reed
Put them in one spot and I’m just there.

Sé Reed
Put them in one spot and I’m just there.

Sé Reed
Happy Canva.

Sé Reed
Happy Canva.

Sé Reed
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Jason Cosper
pulling for that too, uh, it, it won’t really matter what plugin you use.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
You want to jump from, uh, from, you know, ACF to pods, like you want to give that a

Sé Reed
[silence]

Sé Reed
(silence) (silence)

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
(audio distorts)

Jason Cosper
I mean, I personally, like I’ve, I’ve used ACF on a ton of stuff.

Sé Reed
(audio cuts out) Yeah, sorry, sorry about that.

Jason Cosper
I’ve used pods elsewhere. Like I, you know, I can, I can be a little fluid in my allegiances there, but

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
you know, Scott, Scott, I mean, Scott’s, but Scott’s been putting so much work.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
Yeah, sorry Scott about that.

Jason Cosper
Scott’s been putting so much work into custom fields for like so long that

Sé Reed
That’s right, Michelle.

Sé Reed
Scott’s friend is a shell.

Sé Reed
I know.

Sé Reed
I know.

Jason Cosper
work in a custom fields for like so long that like, and, and now having this work that he’s

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
Well, let’s set the table. I’m just saying let’s set the table. Like, let’s put in the

Sé Reed
Well, let’s set the table. I’m just saying let’s set the table. Like, let’s put in what

Jason Cosper
been doing and has been like shepherding for, for like years and years.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
And he had to like put it on the back burner for a minute and everything else. It’s one of those things where maybe it won’t be fully baked by 6.4.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
I know he’s taken on a lot of stuff, but I mean 6.4 6.5 whatever it takes, please Yes

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
in what we need to put in to get that process started.

Sé Reed
we need to put in to get that process started.

Jason Cosper
Mm-hmm

Sé Reed
So, you know, we started by talking about how this release

Sé Reed
So, you know, we started by talking about how this release should not just be about bug fixes,

Sé Reed
should not just be about bug fixes,

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
although I’m pro bug fix,

Sé Reed
although I’m pro bug fix, but what would be cool if this,

Sé Reed
but what would be cool if this,

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
maybe I’ll even say this in the cohort,

Sé Reed
maybe I’ll even say this in the cohort,

Sé Reed
is if this release was an enabler.

Sé Reed
is if this release was an enabler.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
That’s how I want to feel.

Sé Reed
That’s how I want to feel.

Sé Reed
Like I want us to enable all of these dreams,

Sé Reed
Like I want us to enable all of these dreams,

Jason Cosper
(silence)

Sé Reed
even if we’re not finishing, you know,

Sé Reed
even if we’re not finishing, you know,

Sé Reed
the project or whatever,

Sé Reed
the project or whatever,

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
but we’re gonna lay the groundwork and the foundation

Sé Reed
but we’re gonna lay the groundwork and the foundation

Sé Reed
knowing that more is coming

Sé Reed
knowing that more is coming

Sé Reed
and that we do not have to claim

Sé Reed
and that we do not have to claim

Sé Reed
all of the finished glory for ourselves.

Sé Reed
all of the finished glory for ourselves.

Nyasha G
Thank you for having me.

Sé Reed
There’s an innuendo here that I’m thinking of

Sé Reed
There’s an innuendo here that I’m thinking of

Sé Reed
and I’m just not even gonna, just nevermind.

Sé Reed
and I’m just not even gonna, just nevermind.

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(laughs)

Sé Reed
(coughing)

Sé Reed
(crying) I’m okay, I swear.

Sé Reed
I’m okay, I swear.

Jason Cosper
Well, I think, uh, well, we’ll get say through her, uh, her coughing fit. Nice. Thanks for, uh, for hanging out with us today. I think that that’s, that’s a good thing to, uh, to end on though. So, uh, I’m going to hit the outro button. Yeah.

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Uh, hopefully we can have you on again. Nice and soon. Good.

Sé Reed
(crying)

Sé Reed
(coughing)

Jason Cosper
Okay. Say is not coughing, so I am going to let her talk over the outro and the button.

Sé Reed
Hey, listen to us on Apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify, if you like that sort of

Sé Reed
Hey, listen to us on Apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify, if you like that sort of

Nyasha G
Jason Cosper
I’m hitting. Bye!

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
thing.

Sé Reed
thing.

Sé Reed
YouTube, I’ve heard it’s okay.

Sé Reed
YouTube, I’ve heard it’s okay.

Sé Reed
Apparently we stream to Facebook, we stream on LinkedIn.

Sé Reed
Apparently we stream to Facebook, we stream on LinkedIn.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
And what you really want to do is come chat with us in our discord because that’s where

Sé Reed
And what you really want to do is come chat with us in our discord because that’s where

Sé Reed
we’re at.

Sé Reed
we’re at.

Sé Reed
That’s where it’s at.

Sé Reed
That’s where it’s at.

Sé Reed
Come chat.

Sé Reed
Come chat.

Sé Reed
It’s where it’s at.

Sé Reed
‘Cause where it’s at.

Nyasha G
Sé Reed
Jibbles in the microphone.

Jason Cosper
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Sé Reed
Dibbles in a microphone.

Sé Reed
Where it’s at.

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EP460 – From Wish to Commit: The WordPress 6.4 Wishlist

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