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You have a business and a logo. Awesome. You may even have memorized your color’s hex code. But what about different moods? What color shouldn’t be used in your logo?

On this episode, Jason and Bridget will chat with Rhonda Negard of We’ll talk about what to do and what not to do. Open your brand’s color palette with moods.


Jason Tucker @jasontucker
Bridget Willard @bridgetmwillard
Rhonda Negard @fatdogcreatives

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“Keys To Being Social: Being Real In A Virtual World”
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Tool Or Tip Of The Week

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Rhonda recommends Timeular. It’s a fun way to track your time.

Jason recommends the SlideScan Scanner app! If you have slides from your family, this is super fast!

Bridget recommends her new book, “The Definitive Guide to Twitter Marketing” on Amazon.

Show Timestamps

00:02:09 The first 1000 followers on Twitter are the hardest.

00:05:13 What is the main color palette?

00:06:48 “When you go through a branding process, generally speaking, you’ll get the colors for your whole brand, not just the colors for your logo.” Rhonda Negard

00:07:31 Your action color is for buttons and links.

00:08:03 How to Add Tints and Shades

00:11:22 Do You Have Brand Guidelines?

00:12:12 Bridget Leaks “Launch With Words” Plugin

00:12:59 “I want you all to get paid.” Bridget Willard

00:13:18 “The website is for the words.” Bridget Willard

00:15:14 Use to choose darker shades for Heading colors.

00:17:53 Playing with your archetypes.

00:20:22 Color can stop scrolling.

00:22:20 “If you do use a lot of photography, you could also apply a color overlay to it to to to then focus in on that color.” Jason Tucker

00:23:50 What’s the use case for a mood palette?

00:25:15 “But there might be instances where you want to use some stress.” Rhonda Negard

00:27:28 Consider A/B Testing Landing Page Colors

00:29:44 What Shouldn’t You Do With Color?

00:31:22 Consider Other Versions of Your Color Combos

00:33:06 Brand Colors and Colorblindness

00:33:51  Toptal Color Blind Checker

00:35:42 Ensure Color is Culturally Appropriate – A Story

00:37:11 Design Elements and Culture

00:41:47 Which Superhero has the best song? Answer: Spider-Man.

00:42:46 Superman would be in trouble now. We don’t have phone booths.

Bonus: Spider-Man Theme Song Video








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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.

Jason Tucker 0:10
This is episode number 181 of the Smart Marketing Show- Marketing your brand with a family of colors

Brought to you by our sponsors over at ServerPress, makers of DesktopServer. They make local WordPress development easy. Check them out at And Cloudways Cloudways handles all your hosting complexity so you can focus on building amazing WordPress websites without any hassle. Go check them out over

Go check out Bridget’s book, “The Keys to Being Social.” It’s both a physical book as well as on Kindle. Feel free to go take a look at that you can go find that over on Amazon

support us on Patreon, go to and help us do all these really cool graphics.

I’m Jason Tucker. I’m an IT director and web developer. You can find me at Jason Tucker on Twitter.

And this is my friend Bridget Willard. She’s a marketing consultant, she can be found at @BridgetMWillard.

You can go in, help us out by leaving us a review on any of the podcast places that you listen to the podcast, we are a podcast, you can just go find us wherever podcasting places can be found. And again with the abrupt ending.

Bridget Willard 1:33
Hey, we just want to make sure they’re paying attention.

Jason Tucker 1:40
I did put it whatever the version of a pull request is to Canva ask them how do I make a fade out audio they got back to me but they are putting it into something that they wanted.

Bridget Willard 1:54

Jason Tucker 1:55
You know, my, my, my huge pool of 1500 followers on Twitter, whatever it is, you know,

Rhonda Negard 2:06
huge to me.

Bridget Willard 2:09
Well, you know, the first 1000 is the hardest guys. It really is. And if people would just listen to me, and all the free advice I keep giving and the modeling that I do on my Twitter account, y’all can have more followers, too.

Rhonda Negard 2:26
Because “I, too, can be a guru?”

Bridget Willard 2:36
I mean, that’s why I did my labor of love. Because the price went up. So it was only $10 to bring 2020 This is real life is worth if it’s not worth $25 you really don’t care about your own marketing. So sorry. That’s the truth. But hey, like, that’s reality, right? And when we’re talking about caring about the market and your business, a lot of times it’s bootstrapped. You’re in your garage or in your, you know, you’re doing whatever, it’s your passion project. And then you’ve got you like, get some logo on Fiverr

or whatever. And

now you’re ready to like, rebrand. And rebranding is your jam. Rhonda, right. So, like when I think of colors like so when I rebranded I was all about my tattoo, which is the source of my colors. And then the next the next iteration of my website, you’re like, Oh, I got a new kind of palette and I’m like, What is this thing with multiple palettes? And I thought maybe our show would like to hear a little bit more about what you and I had at our brunch the other day. Less the biscuits.

smarty pants. The weather was perfect. We sat outside it was beautiful, right work building at the Pioneer flower factory right here in downtown San Antonio. Go to their house. Well, yeah, good third house, which is adjacent to the Pioneer Flour factory with a view of the San Antonio River.

Rhonda Negard 4:19
Right and the flour is coming out of the factory and it makes it looks like look like it’s snowing. It’s really cute.

Jason Tucker 4:29
super smart.

Bridget Willard 4:30
Unless you’re, you know, have gluten issues. Like

Rhonda Negard 4:32
right can be a problem.

Bridget Willard 4:34
I mean, like, seriously though, like just to kind of go back like I always thought like kind of how we have our blue and

yellow. I mean our blue and orange here like a brand has like two colors. And you always gave me five so like, Can you just tell us a little bit about like the five the main color palette and I know that it’s like a part two to the part three to the. I mean, this is basically a series that we have you on

Jason Tucker 5:07
Rhonda, we know where you live, we’ll just have you come in and tell us more about those things so

Rhonda Negard 5:13
Well, okay, so your logo is just part of your brand. And so generally, I stick to two colors, sometimes a third for your logo, because your logo has, needs to be simple. Because it needs to be used in multiple places, without losing its integrity, that kind of thing. And so the fewer colors you have, the less muddy it can get when it’s scaled down. But also, the easier it will be to remember because, like, I can even think of some big brand names I know that have multiple colors in the logo, but I can’t remember more than the the two basic ones, which is like blue and orange. And I’m thinking of the Windows logo. Now there could be more. But I mean, Microsoft has some advantages, they’ve already been around for a long time, right? So they can afford to experiment. So for them, it’s not a big deal. people already know who Windows is without seeing the logo. The other advantage they also have is that it’s such a recognizable logo that without the color if everything were made black, people know exactly who that is, right?

Bridget Willard 6:20
Oh, yeah, amazon smile,

the money. I mean, Amazon in general, from A to Z, all you need is that swervy arrow, and you know,

Rhonda Negard 6:30
right, right. And, again, that’s another one that’s really simple. There’s some typography and then the arrow, right, or smile. And it’s generally black and white, or black and yellow. And that’s it. But that doesn’t mean those are the only colors that they have.

And that’s the thing, when you go through a branding process, generally speaking, you’ll get the colors for your whole brand, not just the colors for your logo, because you’re going to need I mean, JC you know, because you build websites, and Bridget, usually to for that matter, you know that you need more than two colors, because you’ve got to create some separation between sections, you’ve got to have, you know, headers, one color and links, maybe in another color, that kind of thing. And so having more than two colors outside of your logo is important.

Bridget Willard 7:24
And your button! So your button, right?

The most important thing on any website,

Rhonda Negard 7:31
right, and that’s what that generally speaking, that should be the color of your links, right. And so for me on my website, if you go to, even while you’re listening or watching this, you can see I’ve got orange is my action color. So that means it’s four buttons, and it’s four links. So I have generally, so I have three colors in my logo, but I have five what I call primary brand colors. But I have a lot more than that for my brand palette, and how you come up with that. This is super easy. It’s not rocket science, trust me. So if you’re a designer, for example, you can open up Photoshop, place all five colors that you’ve been given or that you’ve created your own brand, into a layer, duplicate it on another layer, and then that make it a top layer. So move it up a little bit, and then start adjusting the hue and saturation and lightness of that one. So that’ll be your lighter colors. And then duplicate the original colors. Again, put it on a lower light level so that you can still see the original. And then again, these should be darker. So start playing with the hue, saturation and lightness again. And then you’ve got your primary, you’ve got a lighter set and a darker set. That’s for designers, designers can do that. And then of course they know from there, they can also have what we call tints and shades. So tint, we don’t have to get super technical tent means Hey, we’re gonna add a little light to that color to make it lighter, right. So Jason, you could go into, you can put your colors in there. And then there’s a I forget what it’s called. But there’s a way for you to view all the tints and shades. So shade means you’re adding black to your color, so you’re making it darker. And you can do that for every single color that that you’ve been given for your brand palette. So I’ve got five main colors, I’ve got yellow and brown, which you’ll see on my my website, I’ve also got blue because it’s in the logo. And then I’ve got orange is my action color. And then I’ve got a fifth color and it’s green, you don’t see it that much. But then from those five, I have lots more, I’ve got some darker blues. So when I need to create a more timet a mood or something, I can do that. And yes, love the site. And the wonderful thing about coolers is, yes, you can use it to generate your color palette, oh, like this color and then keep hitting the spacebar and it’ll produce more colors and you can just lock locking is the way to save it, lock the color that you like, and they keep hitting spacebar to create more. And then after a while you’ve got your palette, but you can also just go and click on where you see the, you know the numbers at the bottom you can enter in those are hex values, you can enter in your hex value. Yep, right there. And you and then you can lock all of yours. And then you can also add columns. So if you want to broaden your palette before you start looking at the tents of shades, yep, you can move them around just like that. And they’re your tents and shades. So you can then once you’ve built that you can export it as a PDF so that you can save it. You can also bookmark that URL, because guess what that URL has every hex code for every color that you’ve locked.

Bridget Willard 11:09
Oh, nice.

Rhonda Negard 11:10
Yeah. So every time you go to that URL, your palettes going to come up even without you saving it in that system. Now you probably want to save it.

Bridget Willard 11:22
I have a Google Doc with like, Bridget’s colors 2019, like blue da da da? Red da da da. I just have the hex codes. Okay, here’s 2020’s — da da. And then I go into Canva our favorite tool. And then I like I pay for to have the brand, the brand set where I can put in my colors. So I could pick any of their designs. And then use my colors. I just did that with something else I was doing. I just thought Oh, let’s change up this design for some featured image on a page. Oh, boom, there’s my purple. Boom, there’s my green.

Rhonda Negard 12:03
I was gonna say I think I saw a featured image on one of your tweets on

Bridget Willard 12:08
You did. Yeah,

I’ve heard it here first, folks.

Rajenda Zore on Twitter, my friend, Ron Huerca and I working on a plugin.

Rhonda Negard 12:21

Bridget Willard 12:22
It’s called, “Launch with Words.” It’s gonna be freaking awesome.

Rhonda Negard 12:27
Oh, yeah, I want to hear about it.

Bridget Willard 12:29

baby, you know, I’ll hear about it, because I was in the middle of making my landing page. I like oh, it’s it’s time for the show. Because of course, I do what I preach, which is market well is being built.

Rhonda Negard 12:43
So you’re gonna know how to market your plugin. And you’re gonna start marketing your plugin before your plugin is finished. So yeah, welcome interest and excitement.


Bridget Willard 12:59
You know why I care about that? Because I want you all to get paid. Like, if you every day. I mean, that’s a whole nother show. But like every day, Jason, I mean, don’t you hear it from our friends? Yeah, man, wait for the client to get me blah, blah, blah, blah. You can’t watch website without words.

The website was for the words. We forget about that sometimes. But we cut because we have all these great colors. And that’s another thing I want to ask you about. Like, I’m not that crazy. I had a segue. So look. Like, I know that I know that we get these colors, and we get all these different hues and stuff. But like, okay, so when we’re talking about accessibility, all right, like, I was on another website, not related to any of the things we were talking about just some random website. And I could barely read the worst because they were using one of their brand colors on white. It was just with that, you know what I mean? Or like, so I want my headings to be a certain color. Maybe it’s not the action color cuz that’s confusing if it’s the link in the button, but like how do I make the choice on which of those colors is going to be my heading color?

Rhonda Negard 14:16
So General, generally speaking, you want your action color to be the most vibrant. So that’s why I chose orange obviously because now yellow is definitely vibrant but guess what yellow presents some accessibility issues as you know. And so that’s why I primarily use yellows in the graphics or backgrounds. But yeah, so I’m sorry you asked something else and I wanted to add that and I forgot what you asked

Bridget Willard 14:47
The heading colors to the actual colors like click button, but like there’s the headings like they don’t want that to be all I have a sage green, lack of you know I don’t memorize, my hex codes below I have a sage green, right? That’s not a good color for heading.

Rhonda Negard 15:04
Well, it depends on on how dark or light it is. But again, that’s where once you have your primary colors mapped out, and again, you can add some, but you can just take those and, and plug them into color code and then click on the, I think it’s the four squares, where it shows you the the lighter shades, the lighter tints, I’m sorry, and the darker shades of that color. Because the orange that I actually use on my page is not one of the five primary, it’s a darker shade of my orange. And it’s because of accessibility issues. Okay, so

Bridget Willard 15:39
you can still use your main palette.

Jason Tucker 15:43
Now there’s there’s that color.

Rhonda Negard 15:45
Yeah. Now. So that’s where I’m inconsistent, because I build that page that you just had up. Oh, that element before I started learning about accessibility. So Rhonda needs to go practice what she preaches. Right. All right, I’ll find you. Okay.

Jason Tucker 16:02
It’s no big deal.

Bridget Willard 16:05

Rhonda Negard 16:06
Yeah, you can, but can other people. And the brown isn’t the issue. It’s the fact that the the big actions are orange, yellow are what I call the secondary actions. And there’s some debate on whether or not having a secondary action color is appropriate or not, does it confuse people? For me? I think it says, Hey, you definitely need to click on this, like the others are like, yeah, if you feel like it,

Bridget Willard 16:35
and then the marker may be like, then don’t put it there.

Rhonda Negard 16:40
Yeah, well, that’s true. But the other thing is, you might have it as a regular link, and it could get overlooked. So you know, it’s a it’s a trial and error often

Bridget Willard 16:50
mark your spot.

Rhonda Negard 16:55
This is me, trying out a headline.

Bridget Willard 16:58
I love it.

Rhonda Negard 17:02
Yeah, I’ve had that for a few months. And I actually sent it out to quite a few people to get reactions. And yeah, it was pretty mixed. I thought, huh, it’s pretty mixed. Because a lot of people would say, Hey, don’t go for it if you know, less than 50 people like it. But here’s the thing, even though it was mixed, they were all like extreme. Like they were either really like, Oh, I can’t believe you put that on your site, or oh my gosh, that’s hilarious. And so I’m like, okay, it did some work. Right. So it got some attention. And so that’s why I’ve kept it. We’ll see after,

Jason Tucker 17:38
I mean, you name your company isn’t like overweight dog creatives or obese dog creatives or something? You went through it, and you just went straight to it. So to be fun, you’re gonna be fun. Might as well be fun about it.

Rhonda Negard 17:53
Well, right. And yeah, we’ve talked before about archetypes, and my archetype is “Child.” And while you might say, oh, well, but the headline screams “Joker.” Yeah, perhaps it’s also one of my Joker is one of my sub personalities, but children are very playful. Right? So,

Bridget Willard 18:12
But also, as a current and former dog owners, the three of us. (Man, it’s hard not having a dog.) So Jason, you take Lincoln out for a walk? How many times sees Mike Are you spot?

Jason Tucker 18:30
Okay, so let’s just say that my workouts, my workouts are to the point where my watch tells me Hey, are you done with your workout? And I’m like, No, I’m just sitting here waiting for this dude to like, finish on everything. So yeah, no, it happens quite regularly to the point where my watch thinks that I stopped my workout.

Bridget Willard 18:54
And I mean, that’s what you’re doing when you’re marketing is you’re

Rhonda Negard 18:59
stopping peers. Well, you’re,

Bridget Willard 19:00
You’re showing your territory. And the reason the dogs do it, besides the actual biological release, is to tell other dogs, “hey, this is my territory.”

Rhonda Negard 19:12
Yeah, well, right. But it’s right. But it’s also to for marketing purposes, it’s to stop you. Because stop you meeting you make you think. Stop you from scrolling. Mm hmm. Right? And, and create some kind of drama to capture your attention, even if it’s briefly. And and certainly the more traumatic something is, the longer you’re going to remember it right.

Jason Tucker 19:42
Yeah, I mean, that’s one of the things I was noticing on your site. That there’s there’s some spots within it where without the color, you wouldn’t stop at it. So if as I’m scrolling down, I want to stop at this spot, because there’s a huge dramatic change in color.

Rhonda Negard 19:57

Jason Tucker 19:58
So like color’s important not just for the fact that you’re you know, this isn’t even one of your, like your primary colors that you’re using this, this very darker kind of richer tone. But it’s like, I mean, you use it, you use it in a bunch of different places, but it’s not like your yellow or it’s not like your, your orangey color.

Rhonda Negard 20:17
Because I use that like a black. It is everywhere, but it’s my black.

Jason Tucker 20:22
Yeah, but I want to stop at this spo., I want to stop this other spot here, you know, I want to stop at those places. And those places are important, and you have calls to action for those spots, saying here, I want you to do something when you’re here. Here’s some great stuff that I designed for this person. And by the way, if you go over here, here’s a case study that’s just for what I did for that person. So yeah, it the color thing is, is is really important for color separation and stuff and being able to know where to start and where to stop, we have that problem at the church that I work at where our color palette is a black and white.

Rhonda Negard 21:03
Best color palette, because that means you can add in a pop of red, if it’s appropriate. I mean, you can any color can be your accent color. No, of course, it depends on the rest of your brand and the rest of your personality and the goal of whatever the pages but black and white is the best color palette and people seem to freak out about it. But it’s the most luxurious First of all, if you stay with a monochrome, you know shades of gray kind of thing. So that’s where luxury resides. But also, if it’s black and white, that means you can add in colors as you need. And it can be I say almost any color, but I mean within your brand personality as well. But

Jason Tucker 21:50
Because we use,, we use photography to match with that black and white. So we have a lot of our hero graphics, or blue or color, very, very bright colors, that are just photos that we’ve taken at the events that we do and at the you know, the gatherings that we have, or or the lack thereof. But like any of those types of things that are happening, we have those when we kind of show those and use that use that color that are in those photos as a way of doing it.

The other thing is, if you do use a lot of photography, you could also apply a color overlay to it to to to then focus in on that color. So if you’re using colors, and a bunch of different places, and you want to continue to use that darker brown color that you had in there, and you want to use that elsewhere, and you’re going to have some photos on there, just throw that in as overlay color. And now you have essentially said, okay, all these bright colors that are on this page, you’re just gonna be you know, brighter, brighter and darker areas. And now you’re gonna have this, like brownish color laying on top of it, just to make it, you know, kind of all match with it.

Rhonda Negard 22:55
Yeah, yeah. And you can do that either in if you’ve got a page builder or something, or you can do that in Photoshop. And in Photoshop, you could even make it instead of as an overlay, you can make it what’s called duotone, which is anything that’s dark is one color, and anything that’s light is another color. And that’s that’s a really nice effect, too. It’s kind of old school right there, though a lot of people don’t do that anymore. Although, with within the 2016 2017 2018 kind of started coming back in vogue. More younger designers started discovering this dual tone thing. And that was fun to see revived. I don’t I don’t see it as much now. But you know, it’s it’s

Jason Tucker 23:37
In a couple of the apps that I use in social media for, you know, generating graphics and stuff where you have that Canva even has that built in where if you want to do a do a town, you can turn that on and it’ll it’ll do that for you. Nice.

Bridget Willard 23:50
So, church is a great example, a church website of where you, you might want moods, because there’s the women’s ministry, the children’s ministry, the men’s ministry, the teens, the young 20s like, how do we how do we make mood palettes? Or how our mood palettes What’s the use case for mood palette?

Rhonda Negard 24:16
Well, so your whole brand is has a mood, right? All the colors as a whole, but then you can isolate certain colors to create a specific mood to use on a landing page, a marketing piece, whatever. And so let’s, I’ll just take my brand palette, for example. I don’t have a page that’s coming to mind that would demonstrate it.

But as you saw my homepage was primarily the dark brown as a black and then yellow and orange. And so that creates the brown is really grounding but I have a lot of white right? Because that’s my I have whitespace and white background. And so that’s that’s really happy and light and airy, but the Brown is grounding. And I need that brown to be grounding, because I’ve got so much yellow on there. And yellow is the hardest color for the eye to process. And so if there’s too much else around there, it’s going to cause stress.

But there might be instances where you want to use some stress. And so I might then use more yellow than I am the brown, and then, you know, pop in some orange, and that orange and yellow, because they’re so close together, they create some tension, there’s even a green, you can just pull up a generic green light kind of mill the road green, and then magenta and put those next to each other, and you’re going to see a visual vibration. And that creates tension. And there’s obviously going to be situations where you might need to create some tension. And maybe it’s at the top of a landing page. So that while you’re presenting what the problem is, and the colors are vibrating, I’m using my hands so that so that you can get get stressed out, right, so the colors are vibrating. And then as you scroll down, they start to get a little bit further apart. And at the bottom, perhaps you can calm things down, use a little less of the the orange and keep the yellow, but then add in some of the brown and then you’ve calmed them, then look, here’s my solution. So that Whoa, that’s that’s the way that color can move people’s emotions through through your landing page. Because generally at the top, generally, at the top of the page, you’re presenting the problem, and how you can relate to them. And so then the rest of the page moves them through, hey, I get all these struggles. I know you’ve tried this, this and this. And then at the bottom here, I’ve got the fix for that.

Jason Tucker 26:47
Yeah. Are you bored or sleepy during your presentations?

Rhonda Negard 26:53
I didn’t realize you were reading it. I was like,

Jason Tucker 27:01
Jason. Oh, it’s true. I mean, having a way of kind of carrying that person through that experience.

Rhonda Negard 27:11
Yeah, and I didn’t do that here. I did not create visual tension. But there’s certainly opportunities out there where you could do that. I haven’t done it on any pages in my website. But I have done it for clients, and none are coming to mind right now. But be bold.

You know, what, Bridget, one thing for you to consider is to AB test your, your landing pages for your new plugin that you’re developing. Right? You can have one that as far as the color goes is pretty standard. And then you can have another that’s a little risky, at the top, but then flows just like the gradient to some kind of peaceful balance. Interesting. And then you can AB test says, you know, week, week one and two, you know, on Twitter, do use the typical one, B three and four, and then five and six, seven and eight. and see which one is getting the most response. Which one are getting the most clicks. And then which one’s selling because one might be getting the most clicks, but the other might be more effective at selling. Yeah, but don’t change anything else other than the color, because then you don’t know what else it is. You know, it could be the copy, right? Because Science,

Bridget Willard 28:34
scientific method change one thing. It’s literally A or B, but most people have like have two completely different options. Yeah. Go to France. Or

Rhonda Negard 28:50
Corpus Christi. Yeah.


Bridget Willard 28:54
South of France is always like not even as warm as Corpus Christi. Corpus Christi is the same as Morocco.

Rhonda Negard 29:01
Yeah. Close to the equator.

Bridget Willard 29:04
I know it’s funny, Jason, because I’m so much farther further south now. Yeah, realize that. We’re down to two hours, two and a half hours south. And I’m at 2027 degrees.

Unknown Speaker 29:17

Bridget Willard 29:18
Yeah. So I’m at 29. Here. I used to be 33 and then go down there and I’m wondering why it’s so damn hot. That’s why it’s really close to the equator. And I get sunburn. Super easy. Cuz it’s closer to the equator.

Rhonda Negard 29:33
Well, not only that, but you are light skinned. No, I

Bridget Willard 29:36
know. But like, I get sunburn way easier. They’re like when you go to Mexico, you know, or Hawaii or whatever tropics.

Jason Tucker 29:44
Well, speaking of things not to do. What are things you should not do in color?

Unknown Speaker 29:52
What are some others? Tell us one thing we

Jason Tucker 29:55
Yeah. What are some things that you do with color like we’ve talked a ton about? Like here’s how great You know, fat dog credos website is here’s all the colors that they use and everything, but like, what are the things that you shouldn’t do?

Rhonda Negard 30:05
Yeah, so I’m .Good ’cause that’s where I wanted to go next. Because this is part of our conversation the other day, Bridget and Ior breakfast, was the research that I found that I’m incorporating into the book that I’m still working on, well, we’ll be working on again, is that while you can have a whole color palette, and let’s say black and red might be in your color palette, there are reasons that perhaps they might not be appropriate for your logo.

And I pulled up so that I can read and not mislead anybody. I pulled up that “Hero” personality that I have in my book. And on that one, the research indicates it with caution for the hero. Be careful about using high level of brightness or light logos, light colors in your logos. And why? Because a hero is supposed to be strong, right? But the lighter the color, we get into pastels, right, we start thinking children. Are children’s strong? But generally we consider children weak, right? So you want to avoid maybe if you use a yellow, you might need four and you’re a hero, you might need to have, you know, red and black with it.

But you also need to consider what else is red, yellow, and black? And is that something I should perhaps steer from? Or consider how much of each of those colors I’m using. Because you also have to think of context right now. I love Germany. But when people think of red, yellow, and black, many people will think of the German flag, not a problem, because modern day Germany is is wonderful and fabulous. But if you use more red and black, you might start to look into the less-desirable areas of you — might be associated with the less-desirable areas. Now that doesn’t mean now, is that appropriate for a hero to have red and black? Absolutely, because guess what Bridget’s does? She’s got orange in there, too. Right. Okay. And here’s the other reason why it works is none of the imagery could be mistaken as those symbols that we’re all aware of from that era. Right? The other thing is, she’s not a religious organization, which also some of the religious symbols were twisted a bit for that era. And so those are the things that you need to be mindful of for your organization. That’s not project but using similar colors. Right? What about

Bridget Willard 32:49
What about colorblindness? Like it’s occurred to me, because I just went off that. I mean, it’s that kind of hot pink red that I have, but like, that is a primary color of my logo. And yet, colorblindness red is a problem, right?

Rhonda Negard 33:06
Yeah. Well, it depends on the type of colorblind blindness, but from what I remember from my last client that I designed for who what, who had proto topia, I can’t remember how it was. That’s the other cool thing about cooler code, by the way, is they have and I had to, it was my crutch. I will be quite honest. Because when you don’t have colorblindness, you don’t know how people are interpreting these colors. And so other than having them sit right next to you and say, I don’t see what you’re seeing. But then you still can’t see through their eyes. So it’s hard to it would even be hard if they were sitting right next to you.

Jason Tucker 33:51
There’s a there’s a filter that shows you that and based on that type of color filter, you’re talking about

Unknown Speaker 33:58
me that?

Jason Tucker 34:02
You’re asking me to pronounce a word now? And opia pretend opia. Okay. Oh, the website? And I’ll put the link in the chat. Here’s

Rhonda Negard 34:17
Yeah, thank you, because that would have been even better, perhaps, although it was doing branding. But still.

Jason Tucker 34:24
Yeah, it shows you what those differences are, what those differences are between, between the the different the normal ones on the left, and then on the right, and you can see that there’s actually there’s still a color contrast between those and is saying, you know, this is a call to action. But yeah, you can you can kind of go through and you can even switch between these different ones that are on here and you know, kind of create an image so you can see what the differences are.

Rhonda Negard 34:50
So coolers does the same thing, which is wonderful. So either of these tools, and there’s definitely going to be times when I might rely more on that. One then coolers and vice versa. But yeah, so and there are different types of color blindnesses. So you have to be mindful of that. But it’s going to be hard for you to what’s the word? in instances like that? sticking with the color rules that that we’re talking about for your personality, it’s gonna be really difficult. Yeah, right.

Bridget Willard 35:30
But you do want to make sure this contrast because maybe they’re interpreting it a certain way. But at the end of the day, they still need to be able to know. They need to be able to read it.

Rhonda Negard 35:42
Yeah. And they need to be able to like it needs to be palatable to them, too. But what’s palatable to them we need to translate back and say, is this reflecting something that culturally is inappropriate? Because color matters, right? I think I told you guys about a story. I had a bay area client one time. And she and several of her colleagues are Japanese. And so we were going to be featuring them in the presentation we were designing together. And it was three main ones. And they had a whole bunch of other people working with them, right. And so none of the the photos were consistent as far as style and saturation and, and color and background and quality, to be quite honest. So the best way that I have ever handled differences like that is to make things black and white and a little grainy. Right? If it goes if it goes with the brand. Well, and so I was telling her that, you know, that was my plan. And she said, No, no, wait, oh, wait, she goes, You can’t do that. And I said, Okay, why back? And I told her again, this is why I was trying to make a little more consistent. She said no, because in our culture, if somebody photo is black and white, it means that they’re dead. Oh, so you have to think of cultural implications of color, as well. Yeah.

And then to bring up another thing that we discussed in, in our conversation the other day is other elements, other design elements to this is not color, but this is things that these are things that you have to think about when it comes to culture. Now, I had a client whose theme was wildness. And she was using some zebras and lions and kangaroos and elephants and stuff. And so I found some really cool sketches. And so I have them sprinkled throughout the site. And then I had a friend review it, because I’ve been looking at it too many times. And she said, You know, I really like it. But there’s something about the elephant She goes, I’m not certain that the direction that you have the trunk because I’ll try to illustrate trunk was down, swooping down from the nose. And as she says, I don’t think that’s a good thing in Indian culture. And I was like, Huh, I know that she doesn’t have a whole lot of Indian clients, but it’s such a diverse area, we probably should look into that. And see. And sure enough, the trunk down like that is a symbol of bad luck or it’s a bad omen or whatever. And so I had to go out and find an image of an elephant where his trunk was curving up. which I think was prosperity or good luck or something.

Bridget Willard 38:33
I wonder what PHP is.

Rhonda Negard 38:39
Is it really?

Unknown Speaker 38:40

Unknown Speaker 38:41
it really

Rhonda Negard 38:45
English logo?

Unknown Speaker 38:47

Jason Tucker 38:48
yeah. as a as a purple elephant.

Rhonda Negard 38:52
Okay, I’m looking it up.

Bridget Willard 38:54
Tech people always have logos they don’t they they like to say they don’t like anything cute. But then most of the logos if you think of everything and WordPress is super cute. Or even image Panda smushing thing that image panda image panda PNG, right yanda is so cute.

Unknown Speaker 39:17
There’s Oh his truck is down. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 39:23
Well, you know

Unknown Speaker 39:26
their website

Unknown Speaker 39:30
you did you bow.

Rhonda Negard 39:35
So the The nice thing is that even if you have even if you’re the hero personality and you really love pastels, that’s fine. Just don’t use them in your logo. That’s the summation of what we were just discussing.

Jason Tucker 39:52
Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Rhonda Negard 39:54
Yeah. Because I mean, the fact is, you want to look if you’re the hero, you want to look strong. You that You The heroes are the master. Right? They have mastered whatever the challenges they have mastered. Nike, for example, there, they’re the one of the best hero images and there is just do it right? Well, because these people have mastered running, they’ve mastered climbing, you know, they’re the pros. And Nike helps you help them get there.

Bridget Willard 40:28
And I learned from learning, I learned from the Bible, that we always say that we’re an overcomer. And the Greek word is “hupernikao.” Which means if over overly victorious, so Nike is from the Greek that means victorious.

Rhonda Negard 40:47
Wow, I did not know that.

Bridget Willard 40:51
Victor? Yeah.

Jason Tucker 40:54
Well, as my future sonin-law would say, “We invented everything.” Because he’s Greek. So he invented everything.

Bridget Willard 41:03
That democracy so island of Crete is known for their Honey, I want to go there.

Rhonda Negard 41:14
And olive trees,

Bridget Willard 41:15
I think, Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I mean, that’s like that whole Mediterranean area. All

Rhonda Negard 41:22
Yeah. Well, so besides Nike. If anybody wants to go look at these others,

For the Hero Archetype, I’ve got Spider-Man, the American Red Cross. (Hello.) Yeah. And people might think, Oh, these are the caregivers. Well, they are. But guess what? When disaster strikes, who’s there?

Bridget Willard 41:35
Red Cross. Before FEMA, that’s for sure.

Jason Tucker 41:47
Oh, we’re talking about Spider Man stuff.

Bridget Willard 41:51
“[sings] Spider-Man. Spider-Man. Does whatever a spider can. Spins a web

“[sings] anytime. Catches thieves just like flies. Watch out! He’re comes the Spider-Man.”

He’s there. You got to page Batman. ‘Cause he’s in a cave. Spider-Man is already there; it’s in his song. And even though I love Batman, because he’s all about revenge. Spider-Man has the best song. End of story. — No other superhero has a good song.

Jason Tucker 42:20
Why does spider Why does Batman have a sign that goes up onto the moon if he can’t see it when he’s in his cave?

Rhonda Negard 42:28
So that was the butler guy.

Bridget Willard 42:31
Well, Robin, and he outsourced it to Robin later, but yeah, they put it up in the sky. But yeah, he’s in his little cave doing his cave thins. But it was really for Bruce Wayne to see it. As he had to go.

No, Superman went into a telephone booth. Superman be in trouble now. We don’t have any right. Yeah, we’re on.

Superman change right now. The gallery are now gonna be the Christopher Reeves one where he spins around. Spider Man is a patron saint of the web. Very good. Some Catholic humor from Warren lane. No, but that I mean, literally, I when I was a kid, I loved Spider Man because that song and he would just go you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 43:25
there’s the web. You know? I

Bridget Willard 43:27
mean, Batman is more like Inspector Gadget. Right? That’s the tools. There’s no supernatural part of him. He’s just a very bitter guy. And then Superman is like, you know, super like clean and you know, he’s an alien. He’s literally an alien. Okay, so like he’s ichi but not ugly. And then his and then he’s like, pull weird situation with his father and the planet. It’s like he’s got this troubled childhood is so super dysfunctional. So I had this, you know, theory that super heroes come they all come from dysfunction. That’s why everybody wants their backstory, right? Marvel and DC are making so much damn money.

Jason Tucker 44:13
That’s why spider man’s backstory keeps getting replayed over and over and over again, in every single movie. It’s like, dude, we know where you came from. And you keep changing it anyhow. So do we really know where you came from?

Bridget Willard 44:24
I kind of played with Batman’s issues and Joker in the name, Joaquin Phoenix. And I was like, I go in on Twitter. I went to Twitter. What are their brothers? What is going on? Scott Chrome is like now that’s kind of like not in the canon, right? That the Comic Con people are all about canon. I know about the Canon because I used to teach the Bible. So like, somebody the other day was like, I don’t care how they spell capital. I just want to spell canon correctly.

But anyway, like, What a fun episode, there’s so much to think about, like, what should be in your logo, how it’s going to look to other people, you know, adding tint, adding shades, creating those different moods, like for the kids ministry, the women’s ministry, you could definitely do those tips. The, the teach could definitely do the shades, and at but it’s still a commonality, a whole brand that has that consistency. What thread what a lot for us to think about Rhonda, thanks for jumping on last Monday or next week, we’re gonna have Devin Walker gift talking about why technical dependencies are important for marketing suite. Yeah, I’m doing a better job at pre booking guess

Rhonda Negard 45:54
that’s a really good subject.

Bridget Willard 45:56
Oh, gosh, I cannot wait because there’s so many better at technical dependencies than Devin Walker. And also he’s talked about it a lot. So yeah,

Rhonda Negard 46:05
we know some plugin developers and theme developers and everything in between who need to hear that?

Jason Tucker 46:12
Oh, yeah. Oh, Tool, Tip of the Week time, towards Bridget’s book. In social, feel free to go take a look at that over on over on Amazon. Yeah, take a look at that. She’s been putting all her books over there. It’s at a point now where you can just go and click on Bridget Willard, name on on Amazon. And you can see all the other books that she’s done. Yeah, so it’s looking good over there. So speaking of which Bridget, tells me about your Tool Tip of the Week.

Bridget Willard 46:43
So my tool or tip is the Definitive Guide to Twitter marketing, which is available on Amazon and Kindle as a paperback or ebook. Or if you want to read it for free. It’s on my website, just google Definitive Guide to Twitter marketing. I mean, because it’s it’s 7000 words, it’s over 7000 words. So it’s gonna take you a good 25 minutes to read it. But some people like holding a book in their hands like this is my friend Carol’s book is probably going to be thin like this, because it’s not that long. But I like books, because I like writing and books and stuff. I like taking notes. And so people don’t want to be on their computer all the time. But if you do decide to get the Kindle version, all of the links work, including the link to my free Twitter lessons. Like there’s a lot of people I see all the time. Oh, I wish I had a better like what you said you said, If I had a better following, maybe somebody will listen to me or, or authors who are trying to go to legitimate publishers and have to have a minimum of 10,000 followers. Well, you know, it’s the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, and the second best time is today. Okay? Oh, yeah, it takes five years, it takes five years to get 10,000 followers. If you want it to be faster than you need to participate more, spend two hours a day on Twitter, and you’ll do it if you do it my way. And stop listening to other people on WordPress, who have some celebrity and can do it the wrong way. Okay? Like, look at my account and look at everything that I do model my behavior, they could go take this book for kick, start your own social media agency, do it for yourself in house, train your own team, whatever. But either way, I’m not telling you some Bs, you know, it’s not 500 pages of fluff. It’s exactly what you should be doing. And it links to other blog posts of mine because I’m the subject matter expert. This is what I’ve been doing since 2007. And like, I’m super good at this, like, here’s, here’s

what I’ll tell you. Like, I feel like people don’t know how good I am at this. When I was working at the advertising agency.

One of our clients is Paul Davis, and they are a restoration company. We were on the franchise development side, because we worked in franchise development. And guess what hurricane came. And so we got a call. And my boss got the call, of course. And it’s like, we need help. They wanted our help on their main Twitter account for information and how to leverage social media, specifically Twitter for hurricane Harvey. In less than an hour. I had a marketing proposal written that was accepted by the client and got us $50,000 worth of work for just one month.

Unknown Speaker 49:45

Bridget Willard 49:46
So yes, I know what I’m talking about. And it kind of sounds like bravado, but I’m not giving you bad advice. Most people who like that’s why I’m like I double dog dare you just try it. That’s what I’ve always told people. Try for two weeks. Try it for a month. Look at your own analytics. And if you don’t like it, guess what? Do it your own way.

You’re the way you always been doing which isn’t working. I don’t care. Like it’s gonna skin off my back. But I really want to help you. I feel like I just want to help every one of my WordPress friends but there’s not enough of me.

You guys could do it. I believe in you. Like this whole automatic thing doesn’t have to be such a threat. Right? We can do the Twitter levels the playing field for people like us at bigger companies, because they ignore people. And we need community and connection. And when you have a good feeling about somebody, you that’s called affinity. affinity leads to loyalty. Loyalty leads to sales. No matter what automatics done. They’re losing loyalty. So it’s your opportunity. Either way,

Unknown Speaker 51:07
I love them.

Bridget Willard 51:08
I mats awesome. puits sit down with me. I’m telling the same thing. I’m telling y’all now. Okay, so here’s the thing. Just try it. And you can read it for free. I’m Bridget Willard calm.

Rhonda Negard 51:27
I felt like that needed a an audience. My TED talk.

Bridget Willard 51:31
I just I’m so passionate about it. Right now. Like, Jason, I’m scared. Like, you know, when this pandemic first started, I was the one that was like, I’ll be over by May 15.

Unknown Speaker 51:44
It’s not over

Rhonda Negard 51:45
No, and not

Bridget Willard 51:47
gonna be over. Now. It’s gonna be the this whole year.

Unknown Speaker 51:51

Rhonda Negard 51:53
I can’t hear his voice. Yeah, he’s he was speaking.

Jason Tucker 52:01
Rhonda, tell us about yours.

Rhonda Negard 52:03
Yeah, so Tyler, I’m gonna show you this is my time tracking device, I love it. I can I have different so my time that I spend on Twitter. And then if I’m gonna need to spend time on Facebook, all I do is I turn turn it over on my desk. So while it’s sitting in this little dock, it’s not in use, because nothing is exceeded just this is pointing up. Soon as I set it on my desk, aside is pointing up. So on this side, the one that’s pointing up is the phone. So I know I’m working on calling clients back or whatever. I’ve got one that says logo design, I could put that up. And then I know how I’m using my time through the day. They have, yeah, they have different plans. You there’s when you buy the device, you automatically get like I think, I don’t know they they change them up every year as I should. I think you might get six months, or something included. When you buy the device. Device do. So it knows because you assign it you go into your computer, and it has this little app, and you assign what you know, you turn it, this is the slide that’s up. So you take your stickers because it comes with stickers, you put the sticker on it, and then you label it in, in the app. And so this one has Bertie. And so in the app, I said, this is Twitter, when the sun is up, it’s Twitter. When this site is up, it’s Facebook. So

Bridget Willard 53:36
you don’t have to mess around with going into things you get. You just

Rhonda Negard 53:40
know me. It’s just the setup and the setup. Trust me, I hate setting stuff up. So the setup takes like 10 minutes, if you’re trying to be like super thorough, but less. And then then you get a report, you can choose to ignore it every week and wait till the end of the month. Or you could wait till the end of the year, whatever. But you get reports. And it’ll tell you where you’ve been spending your time.

Jason Tucker 54:10
And you could draw on it if you want and sort of using a sticker.

Rhonda Negard 54:12
Yeah, I had to write logo design on mine. Well, it’s called web design. Mm hmm. I don’t know if you can see it.

Jason Tucker 54:20
That’s fun. Yeah, I

Rhonda Negard 54:21
love it. The mind is blown. It’s the best because here’s the thing. Do you are you always going to remember to click in to open up the other app and do it right. And then as soon as you do you get distracted. Oh crap, you know, whatever. And this way, is sitting on your desk, you’re working and you’re like, Oh, I got a phone call. switch it to the phone call side. Is that easy? Oh, I’m gonna check my email now because I need a phone I need to go through and see what they sent me and see if other people have sent me some and then switch again. It’s super easy. And it’s just sitting there on my left side flip. Got my mouse on the right side? just flipping. I like that. Yeah, it’s the best. I got it in 2018. So I’m sure they’ve done some improvements even since I got it. But let me tell you, it’s it’s the only one I’ve used. I haven’t used it

Jason Tucker 55:19
looks like they have the physical tracker plus unlimited tracking on desktop and mobile apps, transformed time entries into charts and reports. You can do collaboration with it export as well as their support. And then they have just like the basic version of it, which is just the the tracker itself plus the app. And so you can pay there a monthly fee type of thing, or a one time fee, depending on what type of functionality you need with it.

Rhonda Negard 55:46
Yeah. And I did the one time thing.

Jason Tucker 55:49
Yeah. That’s cool.

Rhonda Negard 55:51
Yeah. Love it.

Unknown Speaker 55:54
That’s like, I’m speechless.

Jason Tucker 55:57
Yeah, it really just comes down to if you’re someone who requires a physical thing to actually do it, or if you’re someone who doesn’t mind switching between different things on your computer to do it, and it all it’s it, neither one is good or bad. It just comes down to like, how do you actually interact with this stuff on a on a day to day basis? And if you can actually do it that way or not?

Rhonda Negard 56:21
As my friend Bridget says, the one that that’s best for you is the one that you use, right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 56:27
cool, that works is the one you use.

Jason Tucker 56:29
I’d have to carry around that thing. And I feel like I’m playing Dungeons and Dragons, because that’s one of the dungeons and dragons dice. So I feel like I’m like rolling every single time like the wrong sided dice to do it, but you know,

Unknown Speaker 56:45
master of your life.

Jason Tucker 56:49
Roll it just feel like kind of figure it out. So

Rhonda Negard 56:54
that would be fun. What am I gonna work on next? Oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker 56:59
I thought it was like,

Bridget Willard 57:04
your wheels or something. Cuz they have a thing like that for dinner movie nights,

right cards, where you have a set of dice. So the husband and wife don’t have to be like, oh, what do you want to know? What

Unknown Speaker 57:16
do you want to see? Right?

Unknown Speaker 57:19
Whatever says, Oh, it’s a comedy and, and Italian. That’s what you’re doing.

Rhonda Negard 57:26
That’s fun. She’ll look into that.

Jason Tucker 57:30
Alright, so let me pull mine up real quick.

Bridget Willard 57:33
My gosh, I missed the show. I didn’t even realize it. I didn’t realize how much I missed this show. I miss you on YouTube, say Say hi to everybody else. For me. Thanks for coming and watching us. eimer. Morin.

Jason Tucker 57:49
Alright, here we go. So mine is a thing that I wrote about on Facebook recently, I didn’t, I didn’t write a blog post about it. But I thought it would be a cool thing to share on the show here. So I was helping my wife out with scanning a bunch of a bunch of old slides. And these old slides were you know, they’re they’re slides that you can just hold up to a light and be able to like, look at them and do stuff. And they’re super duper small. So they’re really difficult to, to work with. But I wanted to scan them all. And so I wanted to put them on Google Photos and put them on our apple photos and make it so it’ll show up on our TV and show up on all the different places. You know, we’re just that’s our, that’s us in our family. And so what I wanted to do is kind of, you know, build the scan these quickly and easily. And so, I use this app called slide scan. And so the way slide scan works is it takes you take the, I’m gonna play a little video so you can see it. So what you do is you take the slide, and you take out, you open up your computer and use the backlight the screen as the backlight of the slide, and then you hold your phone up to the computer and hold the slide in between them. And then it scans a slide for you.

Unknown Speaker 59:10

Unknown Speaker 59:11

Unknown Speaker 59:13
Oh, my

Unknown Speaker 59:15
goodness. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 59:17
doesn’t do that for negatives.

Jason Tucker 59:19
You could do it negative if you wanted to, as well and then just flip it, you know, like, but yeah, so that’s all it is. It’s like that simple to do. So you go to the spot, you go to the website and you you It puts a, like a light screen up on the on the screen for you. And then you just go in, you know, just scan the photos. And it has has some stuff. So if you’re not somebody who’s you know, able to quickly and easily jump between different photos and stuff or different apps and stuff. They actually have some filters in there. So for instance, if I go in here, and this is this is a photo of my wife when she was a little kid, you can go in here and hit processing and you can actually process the photos. So You can change the colors of it and change whatever. So if you needed to be enhanced, or any of those sorts of things, if you accidentally scan the photo, and you notice that like, like, for instance, this is my wife’s family home that we live in. So we’re pretty used to the way that things look and everything. Maybe, maybe I think, you know, this photo was backwards, you can quickly do a quick little flip. Um, it also crops out the photo for you automatically. So you can do that as well. So really, really cool. There is a monthly fee for it if you end up using it. But feel free to go take a look at it and see if it’s something that’s right for you.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:33
That’s amazing. That is amazing. Those are the two amazing tips.

Jason Tucker 1:00:38
Yeah, so that one’s called slide scan. And slide scan has a family of other photos that other apps that do the same sort of type of thing. But colorize and life show and a whole bunch of stuff like that. One in particular is if you want to scan film, they have a whole film version of it too. So you can kind of go through and just like scan the film through your phone real fast. It’s pretty nifty. So let’s take a look at that. We’re out of time. Rhonda, thank you very much for hanging out with us. I really,

Rhonda Negard 1:01:06
thank you for the invite. I always love talking to you guys.

Jason Tucker 1:01:09
It was super fun to kind of discuss color and the moods of color and all that sort of thing and really, really appreciate you and the opportunity that you bring us to have you come in and talk to us about this stuff.

Rhonda Negard 1:01:21
Well, thank you.

Jason Tucker 1:01:23
All right, here’s our outro talk to y’all.

us out on Patreon go to slash WP to help us out, we really appreciate them.

listening to us on the podcast. Definitely do that slash strive to learn all this content over there. Good rest your day.

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Concerned Citizen

Rhonda Negard is a literal white supremacist racist. She believes the Civil War was about states rights. She thinks Black lives do not matter at all. She believes the Capitol insurrectionists are patriots. She is a Qanon believer. And she thinks AOC is lying about people invading the Capitol. It’s your show and you can put whoever you want on there. But people of color in the WordPress community notice.

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